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Will there be a surge in injuries to workers over the next month? https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/ https://www.reuters.c

Will there be a surge in injuries to workers over the next month? https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-m...

vardump 3y ago
How does it compare to Boeing, Lockheed, etc.?
- likeabatterycar 3y ago
  Boeing and Lockheed are union shops IIRC. Any major injuries like those mentioned in the article would mean a major shitstorm and stand-down.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    The magic of unions, when it comes to safety, is that they let employees feel safe not just reporting safety issues, but outright rejecting unsafe requests. Even in union shops, unsafe directives are issued, against policy and law alike, but unlike non-union shops, workers in union shops know someone’s got their back if they call it out and/or say “no”.
  - tekla 3y ago
    Well Boeing is unable to launch anything nor deliver on their end of Commercial Crew, so maybe they need a good excuse to not have to do anything for a while.
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    Boeing outsources a lot more because of that, leading to the time when the Starliner subcontractor had to get an amputation.
- BlackjackCF 3y ago
  From the article: > The 2022 injury rate at the company’s manufacturing-and-launch facility near Brownsville, Texas, was 4.8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers – six times higher than the space-industry average of 0.8. So it doesn’t seem good…
  - nickik 3y ago
    Space industry average is an utterly useless and idiotic thing used for comparison. Most of those companies make tiny sats, or things like small thrusters. Or even small sub-components. And even those that build larger things, build them at far smaller rates. SpaceX in Brownsville should be compared to things like manufacturing oil platforms or maybe wind power plants.
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    It's not hard to find that SpaceX has an average injury rate
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    Doesnt the space industry average include mostly office work? Hardly seems fair to compare actual physical construction and ops work at a developmental test site to desk jobs.
- stevehawk 3y ago
  Well SpaceX launches rockets into space and the others don't so it seems unfair to compare right? :-P
  - dylan604 3y ago
    damn, i mean, you're not wrong, but i'd hate to be the executive assistant to the execs when they read that. by hate, i mean it'd totally be awesome to see their reactions
  - maximinus_thrax 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System Seems like others do as well.
- wnevets 3y ago
  The comparisons are in the article.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
Why would it? The SpaceX injury rate is the same as the US average workplace injury rate.
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago
  > The 2022 injury rate at the company’s manufacturing-and-launch facility near Brownsville, Texas, was 4.8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers – six times higher than the space-industry average of 0.8. Its rocket-testing facility in McGregor, Texas, where LeBlanc died, had a rate of 2.7, more than three times the average. The rate at its Hawthorne, California, manufacturing facility was more than double the average at 1.8 injuries per 100 workers. The company’s facility in Redmond, Washington, had a rate of 0.8, the same as the industry average.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    The US average injury rate is 2.7. "industry average" is meaningless. The aerospace industry consists of 90%+ office workers, very unlike SpaceX.
  - nickik 3y ago
    You are comparing people that work on small sats to people who work on the largest rocket in human history. McGregor is the most active rocket engine test facility in the world. How are their insure rates compared 'per rocket engine test' with other places that test large rocket engines. But again, most of those are tiny rocket engines being test, so how about we look at insure per unit of thrust tested. > The company’s facility in Redmond, Washington, had a rate of 0.8, the same as the industry average. And what is the rate per sat produced compared to others?
    - justinclift 3y ago
      > And what is the rate per sat produced compared to others? That feels a bit um... unethical to suggest as a good measure? :( Along the lines of "we produce more stuff, so cutting corners on worker safety is ok".

vardump 3y ago

How does it compare to Boeing, Lockheed, etc.?

likeabatterycar 3y ago
Boeing and Lockheed are union shops IIRC. Any major injuries like those mentioned in the article would mean a major shitstorm and stand-down.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  The magic of unions, when it comes to safety, is that they let employees feel safe not just reporting safety issues, but outright rejecting unsafe requests. Even in union shops, unsafe directives are issued, against policy and law alike, but unlike non-union shops, workers in union shops know someone’s got their back if they call it out and/or say “no”.
- tekla 3y ago
  Well Boeing is unable to launch anything nor deliver on their end of Commercial Crew, so maybe they need a good excuse to not have to do anything for a while.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Boeing outsources a lot more because of that, leading to the time when the Starliner subcontractor had to get an amputation.
BlackjackCF 3y ago
From the article: > The 2022 injury rate at the company’s manufacturing-and-launch facility near Brownsville, Texas, was 4.8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers – six times higher than the space-industry average of 0.8. So it doesn’t seem good…
- nickik 3y ago
  Space industry average is an utterly useless and idiotic thing used for comparison. Most of those companies make tiny sats, or things like small thrusters. Or even small sub-components. And even those that build larger things, build them at far smaller rates. SpaceX in Brownsville should be compared to things like manufacturing oil platforms or maybe wind power plants.
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  It's not hard to find that SpaceX has an average injury rate
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Doesnt the space industry average include mostly office work? Hardly seems fair to compare actual physical construction and ops work at a developmental test site to desk jobs.
stevehawk 3y ago
Well SpaceX launches rockets into space and the others don't so it seems unfair to compare right? :-P
- dylan604 3y ago
  damn, i mean, you're not wrong, but i'd hate to be the executive assistant to the execs when they read that. by hate, i mean it'd totally be awesome to see their reactions
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System Seems like others do as well.
wnevets 3y ago
The comparisons are in the article.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

Why would it? The SpaceX injury rate is the same as the US average workplace injury rate.

maximinus_thrax 3y ago
> The 2022 injury rate at the company’s manufacturing-and-launch facility near Brownsville, Texas, was 4.8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers – six times higher than the space-industry average of 0.8. Its rocket-testing facility in McGregor, Texas, where LeBlanc died, had a rate of 2.7, more than three times the average. The rate at its Hawthorne, California, manufacturing facility was more than double the average at 1.8 injuries per 100 workers. The company’s facility in Redmond, Washington, had a rate of 0.8, the same as the industry average.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  The US average injury rate is 2.7. "industry average" is meaningless. The aerospace industry consists of 90%+ office workers, very unlike SpaceX.
- nickik 3y ago
  You are comparing people that work on small sats to people who work on the largest rocket in human history. McGregor is the most active rocket engine test facility in the world. How are their insure rates compared 'per rocket engine test' with other places that test large rocket engines. But again, most of those are tiny rocket engines being test, so how about we look at insure per unit of thrust tested. > The company’s facility in Redmond, Washington, had a rate of 0.8, the same as the industry average. And what is the rate per sat produced compared to others?
  - justinclift 3y ago
    > And what is the rate per sat produced compared to others? That feels a bit um... unethical to suggest as a good measure? :( Along the lines of "we produce more stuff, so cutting corners on worker safety is ok".