7 ms·

You should not have been arrested. MDMA should have been legal. End of story. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02565-4 https://www.nature.com/artic

You should not have been arrested. MDMA should have been legal. End of story. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02565-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02565-4 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34708874/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34708874/ https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/well/mind/mdma-ecstasy-risk.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/well/mind/mdma-ecstasy-ri... https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/07/03/australia-just-legalised-mdma-to-treat-mental-health-could-europe-do-the-same https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/07/03/australia-just-lega... It's legal or decriminalized in Portugal, The Czech Republic, The Netherlands, and Switzerland, by the way. Surprise: Those are now the countries with the lowest number of drug deaths and drug related crimes in Europe.

sealeck 3y ago
In Switzerland the sentencing isn't very tough for possession in small quantities, but you certainly cannot _sell_ MDMA and hope for lenient treatment.
avbanks 3y ago
Are you sure it's decriminalized for selling? Selling and consuming are not the same thing.
HenryBemis 3y ago
Although I agree with you, imho the point the parent was making was that: a) when you are 16-18-20-22 you don't know sh*t about life - you are still a newbie. It doesn't mean that drug-trafficking is excused but when I look back at my 18yo self, I could have died 100 times between 18 and 22. And I could have 'taken some people with me' while doing so. b) it's in the person. When given a second chance you can either turn your life around (and a Mr. Garcia will never see you again) or you can go back the very next day and maybe a Mr. Garcia will be finding your corpse in a back alley because a trade went sour. As for Preston Thrope - hang in there. It's a long path to salvation - almost endless. As long as you keep your head up high and give the good fight, good things will (probably?) come. I've watched enough of John Oliver's Last Week Tonight shows to know that you got myriad of forces that want to see you fail so keep walking and dreaming!
- Fischgericht 3y ago
  I agree I veered off the parent's point. In his case his whole life could have been ruined by selling a harmless (if clean!) drug to ravers who very clearly know what and why they are buying a substance from him. Also, in my hypothetical "you should not have been arrested as it should be legal case" he might have ended poor and homeless in the street because everybody was just going to the pharmacy instead of buying from him. :)
tourist2d 3y ago
Ok...? Why would you start debating MDMA legality when someone's sharing their story? Also, all the studies you linked are about using it in therapy vs using it at a rave?
- foxhill 3y ago
  presumably because OP was traumatised by this interaction with law enforcement that - had things been only subtly different - could have been a catastrophic event in their life. there wasn’t a moral crime here - MDMA is widely regarded to be.. safe (please don’t bite on that, i mean to say that current research indicates that it’s probably less dangerous than alcohol). so why should that have been so traumatic?
hereme888 3y ago
Haha I understand your point. But it is a dangerous substance when used without medical supervision. And more importantly, what I was selling was presumably MDMA. I didn't have kits to check the batches for adulteration. What if people died? I was not ready for that responsibility.
- andrepd 3y ago
  Isn't that precisely an argument for legalisation? You wouldn't have 19 year kids selling shit, you would have pharmacies and certification processes and etc.
  - ponector 3y ago
    In many countries street weed is much cheaper than legal one from the pharmacy. 19 years kids could be selling even more knowing they would not be locked for 10+ years.
  - hereme888 3y ago
    I agree it's one argument. But, my views on legalization at the moment are these: Alcohol is a drug, and it gets you drunk. Has side-effects, affects long-term health, etc, etc. Weed is a drug, and in my personal experience it's WAY more "drug" than alcohol, especially how it's used nowadays. Also, across all cultures/races, studies show that the earlier a person starts consuming it, the higher the risk of developing some sort of psychosis later in life (I have my own theories as to "why"). Also, who smokes weed the most? When I did clinical rotations in New York it was the poor and the less educated that smoked weed all day. I would even see black mothers in ghetto areas who took their children to the park and just sit in the benches smoking weed, not paying attention to or interacting with their children, which to me is a very bad example and perpetuating a negative cycle. The more educated did it occasionally, and with self control. So unrestricted access to weed for those with less self-control and goal-oriented behavior is more likely to ruin their lives; the very people who instead need to cultivate more self control and goal-oriented behavior. I'm glad that weed is now available legally, because it guarantees users a clean product, as opposed to nowadays in KY where I'm at lots of illicit weed is laced with fentanyl-like compounds. I consume THC + CBD every once in a blue moon, and I don't dare touch street products for various reasons. MDMA legal...well, I haven't seen anyone die from weed. But MDMA is quite dangerous. And who screens beforehand if that person has a cardiovascular issue they may not even be aware of? Alcohol and weed don't have much of a short-term effect on the heart. MDMA is an amphetamine-like compound. These are my thoughts at the moment.
frankyg 3y ago
Also some the best countries to hide criminal activity without having to hide yourself. <3
mormegil 3y ago
I don't think MDMA is "legal or decriminalized" in the Czech Republic...? Sure, consumption of _anything_ is decriminalized here (you are allowed to possess only a tiny amount for your own consumption) but other than that, owning, offering, selling, importing, etc. MDMA is very much criminalized here!
- _heimdall 3y ago
  How does that work exactly? How does one end up with a tint amount for personal consumption if someone else couldn't legally allowed to have enough to sell? Seems really strange that the government would have bothered decriminalizing consumption if the supply itself is illegal.
  - polygamous_bat 3y ago
    Why is that weird? You can have food, you can make food for yourself and your friend, but if you’re selling cooked food to strangers you need to have minimum standards of cleanliness etc.
    - _heimdall 3y ago
      There are legal avenues to buy food though. My confusion is just that its illegal to sell but legal to own, it seems that still makes it functionally illegal to own since you shouldn't be able to buy it anywhere
      - Fischgericht 3y ago
        This is indeed a logic problem that exists in many countries that have partial legislation. But it still helps. It removes the stigma, but most importantly: In many countries going after substance users is a low-hanging fruit to police. Instead of solving real crimes if you raid a club you can arrest a lot of "criminals", improving your statistics. In the "war on drugs", in 99% police is going after the users, not the dealers, because the latter are far harder to catch.
  - 3y ago

sealeck 3y ago

In Switzerland the sentencing isn't very tough for possession in small quantities, but you certainly cannot _sell_ MDMA and hope for lenient treatment.

avbanks 3y ago

Are you sure it's decriminalized for selling? Selling and consuming are not the same thing.

HenryBemis 3y ago

Although I agree with you, imho the point the parent was making was that: a) when you are 16-18-20-22 you don't know sh*t about life - you are still a newbie. It doesn't mean that drug-trafficking is excused but when I look back at my 18yo self, I could have died 100 times between 18 and 22. And I could have 'taken some people with me' while doing so. b) it's in the person. When given a second chance you can either turn your life around (and a Mr. Garcia will never see you again) or you can go back the very next day and maybe a Mr. Garcia will be finding your corpse in a back alley because a trade went sour. As for Preston Thrope - hang in there. It's a long path to salvation - almost endless. As long as you keep your head up high and give the good fight, good things will (probably?) come. I've watched enough of John Oliver's Last Week Tonight shows to know that you got myriad of forces that want to see you fail so keep walking and dreaming!

Fischgericht 3y ago
I agree I veered off the parent's point. In his case his whole life could have been ruined by selling a harmless (if clean!) drug to ravers who very clearly know what and why they are buying a substance from him. Also, in my hypothetical "you should not have been arrested as it should be legal case" he might have ended poor and homeless in the street because everybody was just going to the pharmacy instead of buying from him. :)

tourist2d 3y ago

Ok...? Why would you start debating MDMA legality when someone's sharing their story? Also, all the studies you linked are about using it in therapy vs using it at a rave?

foxhill 3y ago
presumably because OP was traumatised by this interaction with law enforcement that - had things been only subtly different - could have been a catastrophic event in their life. there wasn’t a moral crime here - MDMA is widely regarded to be.. safe (please don’t bite on that, i mean to say that current research indicates that it’s probably less dangerous than alcohol). so why should that have been so traumatic?

hereme888 3y ago

Haha I understand your point. But it is a dangerous substance when used without medical supervision. And more importantly, what I was selling was presumably MDMA. I didn't have kits to check the batches for adulteration. What if people died? I was not ready for that responsibility.

andrepd 3y ago
Isn't that precisely an argument for legalisation? You wouldn't have 19 year kids selling shit, you would have pharmacies and certification processes and etc.
- ponector 3y ago
  In many countries street weed is much cheaper than legal one from the pharmacy. 19 years kids could be selling even more knowing they would not be locked for 10+ years.
- hereme888 3y ago
  I agree it's one argument. But, my views on legalization at the moment are these: Alcohol is a drug, and it gets you drunk. Has side-effects, affects long-term health, etc, etc. Weed is a drug, and in my personal experience it's WAY more "drug" than alcohol, especially how it's used nowadays. Also, across all cultures/races, studies show that the earlier a person starts consuming it, the higher the risk of developing some sort of psychosis later in life (I have my own theories as to "why"). Also, who smokes weed the most? When I did clinical rotations in New York it was the poor and the less educated that smoked weed all day. I would even see black mothers in ghetto areas who took their children to the park and just sit in the benches smoking weed, not paying attention to or interacting with their children, which to me is a very bad example and perpetuating a negative cycle. The more educated did it occasionally, and with self control. So unrestricted access to weed for those with less self-control and goal-oriented behavior is more likely to ruin their lives; the very people who instead need to cultivate more self control and goal-oriented behavior. I'm glad that weed is now available legally, because it guarantees users a clean product, as opposed to nowadays in KY where I'm at lots of illicit weed is laced with fentanyl-like compounds. I consume THC + CBD every once in a blue moon, and I don't dare touch street products for various reasons. MDMA legal...well, I haven't seen anyone die from weed. But MDMA is quite dangerous. And who screens beforehand if that person has a cardiovascular issue they may not even be aware of? Alcohol and weed don't have much of a short-term effect on the heart. MDMA is an amphetamine-like compound. These are my thoughts at the moment.

frankyg 3y ago

Also some the best countries to hide criminal activity without having to hide yourself. <3

mormegil 3y ago

I don't think MDMA is "legal or decriminalized" in the Czech Republic...? Sure, consumption of _anything_ is decriminalized here (you are allowed to possess only a tiny amount for your own consumption) but other than that, owning, offering, selling, importing, etc. MDMA is very much criminalized here!

_heimdall 3y ago
How does that work exactly? How does one end up with a tint amount for personal consumption if someone else couldn't legally allowed to have enough to sell? Seems really strange that the government would have bothered decriminalizing consumption if the supply itself is illegal.
- polygamous_bat 3y ago
  Why is that weird? You can have food, you can make food for yourself and your friend, but if you’re selling cooked food to strangers you need to have minimum standards of cleanliness etc.
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    There are legal avenues to buy food though. My confusion is just that its illegal to sell but legal to own, it seems that still makes it functionally illegal to own since you shouldn't be able to buy it anywhere
    - Fischgericht 3y ago
      This is indeed a logic problem that exists in many countries that have partial legislation. But it still helps. It removes the stigma, but most importantly: In many countries going after substance users is a low-hanging fruit to police. Instead of solving real crimes if you raid a club you can arrest a lot of "criminals", improving your statistics. In the "war on drugs", in 99% police is going after the users, not the dealers, because the latter are far harder to catch.
- 3y ago