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Forgive me, but you must have only skimmed the OP. It is quite explicit. > [Search] kinda works when you generally know what you need or how a feature you want

Forgive me, but you must have only skimmed the OP. It is quite explicit. > [Search] kinda works when you generally know what you need or how a feature you want could be called. But really not when this is your first rodeo.

kazinator 3y ago
Will a web page be discoverable if its server blocks all search-related robots? Now if search were the only means of discovery, that would be bad. Imagine if no two pages linked together: everything had to be found in an index. That's a strawman though. Search complements other modes of discovery. How about REdiscoverability. You remember some feature in the program and some words related to it, but ... where the heck was it? Search can help.
- torstenvl 3y ago
  Just to be clear: (a) what percentage of web pages do you think can be found by a person using a search engine, without specific prior knowledge of the content? (b) do you believe an application in which the same percentage of features are discoverable has acceptable discoverability?
  - kazinator 3y ago
    If we are not talking about issues (that don't apply to UI search) like pages being low-ranked out of existence, I would say all pages are discoverable through search. In the sense that, for instance, if I find a great Greek restaurant I didn't know existed, that counts as discovery, even though I already know Greek food and was searching for that.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
eviks 3y ago
That's the sentence I thought you meant, but you're just reading it wrong. This doesn't support your radical statement. "General knowledge of what you wantl is perfectly fine and doesn't block discoverability, that's also how you discover a lot of things on the web It's also wrong, for example, you can discover all the file operations by typing in "file" in the search box even if it's your first rodeo Also, search box can list all the commands as some commands palettes do in other apps, so you can just scroll to discover 100% of listed commands. It can also show categories, that's, for example, how I discover 100% of commands for some plugin by typing its name and reading the list of commands in the search results Btw, this problem doesn't go away with the menu (like mentioned in another thread): it's hard to discover by looking through a huge nested list, especially when this list is poorly organized like in Gimp, and incomplete, and not context dependent So no, search is on the same side of discoverability, and the op doesn't claim otherwise, that's your mistaken interpretation
- torstenvl 3y ago
  Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior, nor is being coy and snarky. If that's the sentence you thought I meant, then pretending you didn't know what I was talking about was a lie and you should find somewhere other than HN to hang out.
  - eviks 3y ago
    So why were you being coy in your reference then? And it's rather dishonest to conflate knowledge with a guess (by the way, I still don't know which part of "this thread" you meant, I didn't find another statement like yours)

kazinator 3y ago

Will a web page be discoverable if its server blocks all search-related robots? Now if search were the only means of discovery, that would be bad. Imagine if no two pages linked together: everything had to be found in an index. That's a strawman though. Search complements other modes of discovery. How about REdiscoverability. You remember some feature in the program and some words related to it, but ... where the heck was it? Search can help.

torstenvl 3y ago
Just to be clear: (a) what percentage of web pages do you think can be found by a person using a search engine, without specific prior knowledge of the content? (b) do you believe an application in which the same percentage of features are discoverable has acceptable discoverability?
- kazinator 3y ago
  If we are not talking about issues (that don't apply to UI search) like pages being low-ranked out of existence, I would say all pages are discoverable through search. In the sense that, for instance, if I find a great Greek restaurant I didn't know existed, that counts as discovery, even though I already know Greek food and was searching for that.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

eviks 3y ago

That's the sentence I thought you meant, but you're just reading it wrong. This doesn't support your radical statement. "General knowledge of what you wantl is perfectly fine and doesn't block discoverability, that's also how you discover a lot of things on the web It's also wrong, for example, you can discover all the file operations by typing in "file" in the search box even if it's your first rodeo Also, search box can list all the commands as some commands palettes do in other apps, so you can just scroll to discover 100% of listed commands. It can also show categories, that's, for example, how I discover 100% of commands for some plugin by typing its name and reading the list of commands in the search results Btw, this problem doesn't go away with the menu (like mentioned in another thread): it's hard to discover by looking through a huge nested list, especially when this list is poorly organized like in Gimp, and incomplete, and not context dependent So no, search is on the same side of discoverability, and the op doesn't claim otherwise, that's your mistaken interpretation

torstenvl 3y ago
Dishonesty is not acceptable behavior, nor is being coy and snarky. If that's the sentence you thought I meant, then pretending you didn't know what I was talking about was a lie and you should find somewhere other than HN to hang out.
- eviks 3y ago
  So why were you being coy in your reference then? And it's rather dishonest to conflate knowledge with a guess (by the way, I still don't know which part of "this thread" you meant, I didn't find another statement like yours)