5 ms·

Trying not to start a controversy or hijack this to an unrelated news story - but my first thought when the whole Trayvon Martin thing happened - the thing that

by ojbyrne 15y ago

Trying not to start a controversy or hijack this to an unrelated news story - but my first thought when the whole Trayvon Martin thing happened - the thing that alerts Neighborhood Watch types in bedroom communities isn't "walking while black," but just plain old "walking." It's suspicious.

Duff 15y ago
Great point. The whole notion of the "gated community" is patently offensive and only possible by virtue of the automobile. Walk through an old city. Even in the victorian era, where families were packed in single rooms with no running water, they were just a 5-10 minute walk from stately townhouses of the well-to-do. Now, we feel the need to separate ourselves with berms and fences.
- hammock 15y ago
  The upper classes separating themselves from everyone else isn't a modern invention...what do you think castles are?
  - aqme28 15y ago
    This is more the middle classes separating themselves from a perceived (yet not necessarily existent) other.
  - gamble 15y ago
    Ever been inside an actual castle? The lord's family was lucky if they had one or two private rooms. Most castles are tiny compared to their presentation in the media. Aside from things like 18th-century manor houses - a tiny proportion of any country's population, and absolutely stuffed with working-class servants - the lack of motorized transit meant that upper-class neighbourhoods were usually right in the centre of the city, within walking distance of the poorer areas. You really just have to look at NYC or London to see that. 19th century mansions are not that far from the historically poor areas. And even those people who did own manor houses usually had a townhouse. It wasn't until trains, subways, and automobiles arrived in the mid-20th century that commuting between the business centre and exclusive suburbs became possible.
- daniel_solano 15y ago
  Well, the ‘gated community’ as such may exist by virtue of the automobile, but the overall concept is much older and can apply even in high-density urban environments. What about a luxury apartment building that hires a doorman? It is the same thing in spirit as the gated community.
  - excuse-me 15y ago
    The concept of the gated community in a city is much older in Europe, and as in modern America, it also contained a section of society that ordinary people despised and didn't want to mix with. After one country took this attitude to unfortunate extremes a couple of generations ago - we have tried to all get along a bit better.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
thejteam 15y ago
I've thought the same thing. I've never been stopped by anybody, but I've had local sheriff's deputies drive past me really slow and look really closely at me while I'm taking a walk through a nearby community during my lunch break. And I'm a pretty non-imposing white guy dressed in business attire. This wasn't even a gated community. Walking just isn't considered a "normal" activity in some areas, at least by people who aren't up to something.
noonespecial 15y ago
I tried to take a walk in the suburban neighborhood where my parents live and was brought home in a police car. The neighbors called the police and reported someone suspicious walking through the neighborhood. Apparently, its just not done. I didn't have any ID on me so I was brought home in the cruiser so I could present my "papers" to the officer. Its a terrible thing to think but I distinctly remember being grateful for the particulary large amount of light my skin happens to reflect that night.
- mindrag 15y ago
  It's not a terrible thing to think. You aren't thinking this because you're racist, but because we all know that in many communities, the cops will not give nonwhites the same benefit of the doubt that they extend to white people.
- tallyho 15y ago
  Nowhere in this country is a citizen required to carry or produce ID in public. Furthermore, officers need reasonable suspicion that you have committed, or are about to commit, a crime before you are required to identify yourself. You are never required to explain your actions.
  - noonespecial 15y ago
    I'm sure if I'd simply explained that to him, everything would have worked out fine for me, yes?
    - bmelton 15y ago
      It depends on your definition of fine, but probably, yes. If 'fine' means not hassled or delayed in any way, then it already didn't work out 'fine'. If you're willing to add on another hour or two waiting, perhaps the night, waiting at the police station as 'fine', then you're still good. I'm not sure if you're concerned that you would have been beaten or harmed? I'm sure it's not out of the question, it never is, but so long as you remained peacable as you explained it to the officer, I'm guessing it wasn't likely. Every district / cop / municipality is of course different though.
simmons 15y ago
You may be on to something. In some places, even walking downtown is suspicious. I'll never forget an experience I had in the 90's while working for a regional ISP in Alabama. I was spending the day at a town 60 miles away to work on our satellite POP, and decided to take a walk around the downtown to find some lunch. It just so happened that a sales guy from my office was also in town, and stopped on the main road and yelled "What happened to your car?!?!!" He was shocked that someone would choose to take a walk, and was telling people about the incident for weeks. Of course, here in Colorado, it's not uncommon at all to find people walking or biking even way out in the suburbs. So I suppose attitudes vary greatly by region.
dredmorbius 15y ago
ObBradbury, "The Pedestrian". Written 61 years ago. http://mikejmoran.typepad.com/files/pedestrian-by-bradbury-1.pdf http://mikejmoran.typepad.com/files/pedestrian-by-bradbury-1...

by ojbyrne 15y ago

Duff 15y ago

Great point. The whole notion of the "gated community" is patently offensive and only possible by virtue of the automobile. Walk through an old city. Even in the victorian era, where families were packed in single rooms with no running water, they were just a 5-10 minute walk from stately townhouses of the well-to-do. Now, we feel the need to separate ourselves with berms and fences.

hammock 15y ago
The upper classes separating themselves from everyone else isn't a modern invention...what do you think castles are?
- aqme28 15y ago
  This is more the middle classes separating themselves from a perceived (yet not necessarily existent) other.
- gamble 15y ago
  Ever been inside an actual castle? The lord's family was lucky if they had one or two private rooms. Most castles are tiny compared to their presentation in the media. Aside from things like 18th-century manor houses - a tiny proportion of any country's population, and absolutely stuffed with working-class servants - the lack of motorized transit meant that upper-class neighbourhoods were usually right in the centre of the city, within walking distance of the poorer areas. You really just have to look at NYC or London to see that. 19th century mansions are not that far from the historically poor areas. And even those people who did own manor houses usually had a townhouse. It wasn't until trains, subways, and automobiles arrived in the mid-20th century that commuting between the business centre and exclusive suburbs became possible.
daniel_solano 15y ago
Well, the ‘gated community’ as such may exist by virtue of the automobile, but the overall concept is much older and can apply even in high-density urban environments. What about a luxury apartment building that hires a doorman? It is the same thing in spirit as the gated community.
- excuse-me 15y ago
  The concept of the gated community in a city is much older in Europe, and as in modern America, it also contained a section of society that ordinary people despised and didn't want to mix with. After one country took this attitude to unfortunate extremes a couple of generations ago - we have tried to all get along a bit better.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

thejteam 15y ago

I've thought the same thing. I've never been stopped by anybody, but I've had local sheriff's deputies drive past me really slow and look really closely at me while I'm taking a walk through a nearby community during my lunch break. And I'm a pretty non-imposing white guy dressed in business attire. This wasn't even a gated community. Walking just isn't considered a "normal" activity in some areas, at least by people who aren't up to something.

noonespecial 15y ago

I tried to take a walk in the suburban neighborhood where my parents live and was brought home in a police car. The neighbors called the police and reported someone suspicious walking through the neighborhood. Apparently, its just not done. I didn't have any ID on me so I was brought home in the cruiser so I could present my "papers" to the officer. Its a terrible thing to think but I distinctly remember being grateful for the particulary large amount of light my skin happens to reflect that night.

mindrag 15y ago
It's not a terrible thing to think. You aren't thinking this because you're racist, but because we all know that in many communities, the cops will not give nonwhites the same benefit of the doubt that they extend to white people.
tallyho 15y ago
Nowhere in this country is a citizen required to carry or produce ID in public. Furthermore, officers need reasonable suspicion that you have committed, or are about to commit, a crime before you are required to identify yourself. You are never required to explain your actions.
- noonespecial 15y ago
  I'm sure if I'd simply explained that to him, everything would have worked out fine for me, yes?
  - bmelton 15y ago
    It depends on your definition of fine, but probably, yes. If 'fine' means not hassled or delayed in any way, then it already didn't work out 'fine'. If you're willing to add on another hour or two waiting, perhaps the night, waiting at the police station as 'fine', then you're still good. I'm not sure if you're concerned that you would have been beaten or harmed? I'm sure it's not out of the question, it never is, but so long as you remained peacable as you explained it to the officer, I'm guessing it wasn't likely. Every district / cop / municipality is of course different though.

simmons 15y ago

You may be on to something. In some places, even walking downtown is suspicious. I'll never forget an experience I had in the 90's while working for a regional ISP in Alabama. I was spending the day at a town 60 miles away to work on our satellite POP, and decided to take a walk around the downtown to find some lunch. It just so happened that a sales guy from my office was also in town, and stopped on the main road and yelled "What happened to your car?!?!!" He was shocked that someone would choose to take a walk, and was telling people about the incident for weeks. Of course, here in Colorado, it's not uncommon at all to find people walking or biking even way out in the suburbs. So I suppose attitudes vary greatly by region.

dredmorbius 15y ago

ObBradbury, "The Pedestrian". Written 61 years ago. http://mikejmoran.typepad.com/files/pedestrian-by-bradbury-1.pdf http://mikejmoran.typepad.com/files/pedestrian-by-bradbury-1...