4 ms·

Et alors ? Quel est le rapport avec la choucroute ?

by pil0u 3y ago

polotics 3y ago
Sauerkraut toi même, je trouve ce factoid assez intéressant.
- sebastiennight 3y ago
  Je ne suis pas convaincu, j'ai plutôt tendance à voir les Français se taire en présence des non-francophones pour éviter le jugement des autres Français aux alentours (qui se feront un plaisir de se gausser de votre accent ou de la moindre bévue).
  - Saline9515 3y ago
    Je n'ai jamais entendu un Français "se gausser", je pense que c'est surtout un complexe d'infériorité que beaucoup de Français ont, et qui pensent qu'ils s'humilient en ne parlant pas comme la reine d'Angleterre.
    - polotics 3y ago
      Alors là pas de soucis: serendipity, abate, etc... https://wordwarriors.wayne.edu/list https://wordwarriors.wayne.edu/list
Saline9515 3y ago
Language is not a neutral medium. Languages induce a different way of thinking, different ways of solving problems, different ways to approach interpersonal behavior. Some languages will have vocabulary that doesn't exist in others, producing original concepts. Same goes with grammar, where many languages have very subtle and specific ways of representing time, classification, or logic, for instance. You can read "Contre la Pensée Unique", of Claude Hagège (linguist at Collège de France) about it. He introduces the concept of "Galapagos effect", where linguistic differences with links and informational bridges lead to more innovation due to diversity of thoughts. As a sidenote, speaking in your native language is always easier than speaking in english or any other language. If your mother tongue happens to be a language very well suited for science and mathematics, like French is, why speak english? Especially with other french speakers.
- elvis10ten 3y ago
  Related video which I just remembered: https://youtu.be/CmZdGo6b5yA?si=k67_azS5gwUvQJuq https://youtu.be/CmZdGo6b5yA?si=k67_azS5gwUvQJuq So it seems languages might not change how you think, but might be able to emphasize certain aspects of things like you allude to (I believe).
  - Saline9515 3y ago
    Japanese gendered language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_Japanese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_Japanese "African time" and its relation to language: https://wireilla.com/physics/ijrap/abstract/10321ijrap01.html https://wireilla.com/physics/ijrap/abstract/10321ijrap01.htm... Personality modulated by language: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1367006912438894 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/136700691243889... Of course, if you, as a dictator, ban the word "sad" and the adjacent synonyms, people won't stop feeling sad. However, it's likely that they won't be able to reflect on what they feel, which in turn will change the way they think. And it's likely that the psychologists of this country will have a much harder time healing their patients or writing papers about depression.
- jackcosgrove 3y ago
  I was curious about this because it describes what I have always heard as the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, which has always been controversial and was out favor during the 1960s through 1980s. I looked up the Wikipedia article on linguistic relativity, which is apparently the proper name for it, and found that recent studies had actually confirmed the weak form of this hypothesis, that language can shape cognition. There is however evidence against the strong form of this hypothesis, which is that language can limit or preclude cognition. So I'm left to conclude that the parent post saying that thinking in a particular language could lead to insights that wouldn't happen with a native speaker of another language, is not wrong. However it would be wrong to think that the speaker of that other language could not understand that insight, once explained. (Which is not at all what the parent said; I'm just fleshing this out for my own understanding.)
  - 3y ago
lift_up 3y ago
Ceci.
- Raed667 3y ago
  n’est pas une pipe.
baby 3y ago
Le mec se plaint des gens qui parlent leur langues. Ok.
- sebastiennight 3y ago
  "Je suis allé dans leur pays et vous savez quoi ! Ils parlaient leur langue entre eux - au lieu de parler ma langue à moi, comme des gens civilisés !" Sacrebleu

Et alors ? Quel est le rapport avec la choucroute ?

by pil0u 3y ago

Et alors ? Quel est le rapport avec la choucroute ?

polotics 3y ago

Sauerkraut toi même, je trouve ce factoid assez intéressant.

sebastiennight 3y ago
Je ne suis pas convaincu, j'ai plutôt tendance à voir les Français se taire en présence des non-francophones pour éviter le jugement des autres Français aux alentours (qui se feront un plaisir de se gausser de votre accent ou de la moindre bévue).
- Saline9515 3y ago
  Je n'ai jamais entendu un Français "se gausser", je pense que c'est surtout un complexe d'infériorité que beaucoup de Français ont, et qui pensent qu'ils s'humilient en ne parlant pas comme la reine d'Angleterre.
  - polotics 3y ago
    Alors là pas de soucis: serendipity, abate, etc... https://wordwarriors.wayne.edu/list https://wordwarriors.wayne.edu/list

Saline9515 3y ago

Language is not a neutral medium. Languages induce a different way of thinking, different ways of solving problems, different ways to approach interpersonal behavior. Some languages will have vocabulary that doesn't exist in others, producing original concepts. Same goes with grammar, where many languages have very subtle and specific ways of representing time, classification, or logic, for instance. You can read "Contre la Pensée Unique", of Claude Hagège (linguist at Collège de France) about it. He introduces the concept of "Galapagos effect", where linguistic differences with links and informational bridges lead to more innovation due to diversity of thoughts. As a sidenote, speaking in your native language is always easier than speaking in english or any other language. If your mother tongue happens to be a language very well suited for science and mathematics, like French is, why speak english? Especially with other french speakers.

elvis10ten 3y ago
Related video which I just remembered: https://youtu.be/CmZdGo6b5yA?si=k67_azS5gwUvQJuq https://youtu.be/CmZdGo6b5yA?si=k67_azS5gwUvQJuq So it seems languages might not change how you think, but might be able to emphasize certain aspects of things like you allude to (I believe).
- Saline9515 3y ago
  Japanese gendered language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_Japanese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_Japanese "African time" and its relation to language: https://wireilla.com/physics/ijrap/abstract/10321ijrap01.html https://wireilla.com/physics/ijrap/abstract/10321ijrap01.htm... Personality modulated by language: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1367006912438894 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/136700691243889... Of course, if you, as a dictator, ban the word "sad" and the adjacent synonyms, people won't stop feeling sad. However, it's likely that they won't be able to reflect on what they feel, which in turn will change the way they think. And it's likely that the psychologists of this country will have a much harder time healing their patients or writing papers about depression.
jackcosgrove 3y ago
I was curious about this because it describes what I have always heard as the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, which has always been controversial and was out favor during the 1960s through 1980s. I looked up the Wikipedia article on linguistic relativity, which is apparently the proper name for it, and found that recent studies had actually confirmed the weak form of this hypothesis, that language can shape cognition. There is however evidence against the strong form of this hypothesis, which is that language can limit or preclude cognition. So I'm left to conclude that the parent post saying that thinking in a particular language could lead to insights that wouldn't happen with a native speaker of another language, is not wrong. However it would be wrong to think that the speaker of that other language could not understand that insight, once explained. (Which is not at all what the parent said; I'm just fleshing this out for my own understanding.)
- 3y ago

lift_up 3y ago

Ceci.

Raed667 3y ago
n’est pas une pipe.

baby 3y ago

Le mec se plaint des gens qui parlent leur langues. Ok.

sebastiennight 3y ago
"Je suis allé dans leur pays et vous savez quoi ! Ils parlaient leur langue entre eux - au lieu de parler ma langue à moi, comme des gens civilisés !" Sacrebleu