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A sufficiently complex menu is not really that discoverable, either - you end up having to memorize what category the devs have decided to file a particular fun

A sufficiently complex menu is not really that discoverable, either - you end up having to memorize what category the devs have decided to file a particular function under.

genman 3y ago
Gimp menu system is reasonably logical (except perhaps some minor exceptions like having options under edit menu (but this is also problem with most of the programs)).
- deleted 3y ago
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sparkie 3y ago
Menus used to have at least some consistency across programs. If you knew where an option was in one program, it was usually in the same place in another, or at least similar options were in similar places. The UI designers of the past understood that convention trumps invention. You shouldn't need to "discover" something in 10 different ways when you use 10 different programs. Now everyone wants to "innovate in UI design" and there’s no consistency between the programs you use. It was probably Apple that led the "minimalist UI" trend, but at least Apple have consistency across their applications. The GNOMEs started trying to copy Apple's design cues with Gkt3/GNOME3 but completely missed the mark.
ozim 3y ago
My problem with UX discussions as such is that there is no user context. Removing "clear obvious text menu" might make it less friendly for casual users or first time users but makes space for stuff that experienced users have use of. Sufficiently experienced user needs to have menu organized the same way between versions if they use it for years they already and know what they want, probably just use keyboard shortcuts anyway. Discoverable menu items in complex menu IMO is not some holy grail. I think people read too much in "Apple design" and expect everything "should be easy". If you are first time user of CAD or advanced graphics manipulation application you are going to have to put time to find out tools and where they are. For example I like foldable left-hand menu on web apps where if I know the icons meaning I can fold it but for first time use of application I get text+icon.

A sufficiently complex menu is not really that discoverable, either - you end up having to memorize what category the devs have decided to file a particular function under.

genman 3y ago

Gimp menu system is reasonably logical (except perhaps some minor exceptions like having options under edit menu (but this is also problem with most of the programs)).

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

sparkie 3y ago

Menus used to have at least some consistency across programs. If you knew where an option was in one program, it was usually in the same place in another, or at least similar options were in similar places. The UI designers of the past understood that convention trumps invention. You shouldn't need to "discover" something in 10 different ways when you use 10 different programs. Now everyone wants to "innovate in UI design" and there’s no consistency between the programs you use. It was probably Apple that led the "minimalist UI" trend, but at least Apple have consistency across their applications. The GNOMEs started trying to copy Apple's design cues with Gkt3/GNOME3 but completely missed the mark.

ozim 3y ago

My problem with UX discussions as such is that there is no user context. Removing "clear obvious text menu" might make it less friendly for casual users or first time users but makes space for stuff that experienced users have use of. Sufficiently experienced user needs to have menu organized the same way between versions if they use it for years they already and know what they want, probably just use keyboard shortcuts anyway. Discoverable menu items in complex menu IMO is not some holy grail. I think people read too much in "Apple design" and expect everything "should be easy". If you are first time user of CAD or advanced graphics manipulation application you are going to have to put time to find out tools and where they are. For example I like foldable left-hand menu on web apps where if I know the icons meaning I can fold it but for first time use of application I get text+icon.