4 ms·

Excuses abound. "There are too many features" So? Do the work. Organize them. "GTK doesn't have xxx, doesn't allow yyy, we have to wait until GTK 5 comes out...

Excuses abound. "There are too many features" So? Do the work. Organize them. "GTK doesn't have xxx, doesn't allow yyy, we have to wait until GTK 5 comes out..." No? Just do the work. Add those features to GTK itself or find a workaround. Open-source is built one patch at a time, so a big rewrite can never happen. But what's worse, to me, is that people build up this cognitive dissonance that it's some framework's fault that it doesn't have the right dropdown widget yet.

alpaca128 3y ago
Nobody is stopping you from contributing. A lot of FOSS projects could do a lot of amazing things if they had enough people who "just do the work".
- eviks 3y ago
  That's too simplistic of a view, there are way too many gatekeepers with poor UI design sensibilities which won't just merge your "just done the work to improve UI" contribution, which in turn leads to lower chances getting people to contribute such improvements
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    The linked article talks about a fork created to redesign Gimp's UI, so there were no gatekeepers.
    - eviks 3y ago
      My point was about merging a fork, not creating it.
    - phendrenad2 3y ago
      I didn't see the GIMP project speaking up when Glimpse was accused of being "woke". And also, there's zero chance that the GIMP project would ever switch to the Glimpse codebase. Forking things usually results in the original thing persisting forever out of spite for those who dared to fork it.
      - prokoudine 3y ago
        > I didn't see the GIMP project speaking up when Glimpse was accused of being "woke". Oh I dunno. Personally, I was vocally against the bullying of the Glimpse team.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    Wouldn't it be accurate to say that as far as GUI toolkits the gate keeping is really just GTK? Few seem to complain about QT being to minimalist.
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  "Nobody is stopping you from contributing" is such a classic deflection. I don't know why people still rely on this old copy-pasta. First of all, who says I want to contribute? Maybe I'm perfectly happy using Photoshop. Is my opinion invalidated simply because I'm not a GIMP user? That's illogical. Secondly, actually, a lot of people would stop me from contributing. I just made the case that only a full rewrite would fix this situation. Do you think that the GIMP maintainers are going to be happy if I drop a full rewrite on them? Or do you disagree that only a full rewrite can fix GIMP? Make some claim, don't just fall back on your list of FOSS fanboy deflections.
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    > who says I want to contribute? Maybe I'm perfectly happy using Photoshop My point exactly, that's why nobody "just does the work" > Do you think that the GIMP maintainers are going to be happy if I drop a full rewrite on them? I think they'd be impressed that you managed to rewrite the entire codebase that fast.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      Exactly this. They just only recently found the time to migrate to GTK3. The last thing they need is people who have no wish to use their program or contribute to yell at clouds and insult their work without moving a finger themselves.
      - phendrenad2 3y ago
        I think there's value is stating the truth, even if it hurts someone's feelings. It's not intended as an insult, but if people feel that way, maybe that's their problem, not mine.
        DonHopkins 3y ago
        The one worst thing in the universe that you can do to piss off the GIMP developers is to tell them it should be more like Photoshop. It's like telling RMS that he should develop Open Software for Linux, instead of Free Software for GNU/Linux.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gnulinux 3y ago
> Open-source is built one patch at a time This is extremely wrong. FOSS would be better if things weren't redesigned every other year from scratch. KDE, Gnome, MuseScore to name a few. I was a master of MuseScore 3 and the year I finally became 100%, they dropped support shipped the absolute shitshow that is MuseScore 4, broke every single one of my workflows and finally forced me to use lilypond full time. FOSS is a redesign-after-redesign shitshow just like big name software are. I just want my software to work today exactly the same way it worked yesterday and it seems impossible to achieve that.

alpaca128 3y ago

Nobody is stopping you from contributing. A lot of FOSS projects could do a lot of amazing things if they had enough people who "just do the work".

eviks 3y ago
That's too simplistic of a view, there are way too many gatekeepers with poor UI design sensibilities which won't just merge your "just done the work to improve UI" contribution, which in turn leads to lower chances getting people to contribute such improvements
- alpaca128 3y ago
  The linked article talks about a fork created to redesign Gimp's UI, so there were no gatekeepers.
  - eviks 3y ago
    My point was about merging a fork, not creating it.
  - phendrenad2 3y ago
    I didn't see the GIMP project speaking up when Glimpse was accused of being "woke". And also, there's zero chance that the GIMP project would ever switch to the Glimpse codebase. Forking things usually results in the original thing persisting forever out of spite for those who dared to fork it.
    - prokoudine 3y ago
      > I didn't see the GIMP project speaking up when Glimpse was accused of being "woke". Oh I dunno. Personally, I was vocally against the bullying of the Glimpse team.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  Wouldn't it be accurate to say that as far as GUI toolkits the gate keeping is really just GTK? Few seem to complain about QT being to minimalist.
phendrenad2 3y ago
"Nobody is stopping you from contributing" is such a classic deflection. I don't know why people still rely on this old copy-pasta. First of all, who says I want to contribute? Maybe I'm perfectly happy using Photoshop. Is my opinion invalidated simply because I'm not a GIMP user? That's illogical. Secondly, actually, a lot of people would stop me from contributing. I just made the case that only a full rewrite would fix this situation. Do you think that the GIMP maintainers are going to be happy if I drop a full rewrite on them? Or do you disagree that only a full rewrite can fix GIMP? Make some claim, don't just fall back on your list of FOSS fanboy deflections.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  > who says I want to contribute? Maybe I'm perfectly happy using Photoshop My point exactly, that's why nobody "just does the work" > Do you think that the GIMP maintainers are going to be happy if I drop a full rewrite on them? I think they'd be impressed that you managed to rewrite the entire codebase that fast.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Exactly this. They just only recently found the time to migrate to GTK3. The last thing they need is people who have no wish to use their program or contribute to yell at clouds and insult their work without moving a finger themselves.
    - phendrenad2 3y ago
      I think there's value is stating the truth, even if it hurts someone's feelings. It's not intended as an insult, but if people feel that way, maybe that's their problem, not mine.
      - DonHopkins 3y ago
        The one worst thing in the universe that you can do to piss off the GIMP developers is to tell them it should be more like Photoshop. It's like telling RMS that he should develop Open Software for Linux, instead of Free Software for GNU/Linux.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gnulinux 3y ago

> Open-source is built one patch at a time This is extremely wrong. FOSS would be better if things weren't redesigned every other year from scratch. KDE, Gnome, MuseScore to name a few. I was a master of MuseScore 3 and the year I finally became 100%, they dropped support shipped the absolute shitshow that is MuseScore 4, broke every single one of my workflows and finally forced me to use lilypond full time. FOSS is a redesign-after-redesign shitshow just like big name software are. I just want my software to work today exactly the same way it worked yesterday and it seems impossible to achieve that.