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There are a lot of historical examples arguing for and against you. But murder and rape is far different than getting popped for heroin or selling weed and our

There are a lot of historical examples arguing for and against you. But murder and rape is far different than getting popped for heroin or selling weed and our laws already reflect that

zamalek 3y ago
Rehabilitation is rehabilitation. In contrast, the American system aims for penance, which is why we call it penetentiary. You have to "pay for your actions" - which has absolutely nothing to do with rehabilitation and preventing recidivism. Paying for your actions is deeply ingrained is the American zeitgeist - making the concept of favoring rehabilitation appear immoral. Regardless, it could be argued that rehabilitating a perpetrator of more severe crimes is a harsher form of punitive justice. Living with your (newly acquired) guilt and regret about your actions is more difficult than hanging out with, and learning from, your peers in crime university - prison. Also, selling heroin is often manslaughter.
Kye 3y ago
What are the recidivism rates on those crimes like? Our laws often reflect misguided morals, not hard data. Justice is supposed to be blind. That's an ideal to reach for, not reject out of hand.
- hu3 3y ago
  https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-5-adult-sex-offender-recidivism https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-5-adult-sex-offender-re... > Sexual recidivism rates range from 5 percent after three years to 24 percent after 15 years. Also, I wouldn't put murder and rape in the same sentence. There are some situations where murder reasoning might be debatable even if still wrong (self defense against and archenemy that promised to assassinate your family, for example). But rape? There's no rationalizing rape other than mental illness. I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I had to write this.
  - concordDance 3y ago
    Except rape has much lower recidivism than crimes like theft or murder. So someone who is a murderer is more likely to commit crimes when released than a rapist.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    > But rape? There's no rationalizing rape other than mental illness. 20 year old having sex with a 17 year old isn’t mental illness.
    - hu3 3y ago
      Rape is also about consent, not just age. As an aside, I learned the other day that in Brazil the age of consent is 14: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_South_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_South_Ameri...
      - MacsHeadroom 3y ago
        14 is pretty average globally speaking. It's 16 in most U.S. states, with exceptions often going down to 14 when there is an age gap of 4 years or less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_...
      - KMnO4 3y ago
        The stark reality is that there’s a difference between rape (the crime) and rape (the action). You can be convicted of the crime for a lot of reasons other than lack of consent. A common example of that is a 20 year old with a 17 year old in many states.
    - verall 3y ago
      This obviously isn't what he's referring to and isn't illegal in most states.
      - kortilla 3y ago
lkj34tlk34t 3y ago
[flagged]

There are a lot of historical examples arguing for and against you. But murder and rape is far different than getting popped for heroin or selling weed and our laws already reflect that

zamalek 3y ago

Rehabilitation is rehabilitation. In contrast, the American system aims for penance, which is why we call it penetentiary. You have to "pay for your actions" - which has absolutely nothing to do with rehabilitation and preventing recidivism. Paying for your actions is deeply ingrained is the American zeitgeist - making the concept of favoring rehabilitation appear immoral. Regardless, it could be argued that rehabilitating a perpetrator of more severe crimes is a harsher form of punitive justice. Living with your (newly acquired) guilt and regret about your actions is more difficult than hanging out with, and learning from, your peers in crime university - prison. Also, selling heroin is often manslaughter.

Kye 3y ago

What are the recidivism rates on those crimes like? Our laws often reflect misguided morals, not hard data. Justice is supposed to be blind. That's an ideal to reach for, not reject out of hand.

hu3 3y ago
https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-5-adult-sex-offender-recidivism https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-5-adult-sex-offender-re... > Sexual recidivism rates range from 5 percent after three years to 24 percent after 15 years. Also, I wouldn't put murder and rape in the same sentence. There are some situations where murder reasoning might be debatable even if still wrong (self defense against and archenemy that promised to assassinate your family, for example). But rape? There's no rationalizing rape other than mental illness. I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I had to write this.
- concordDance 3y ago
  Except rape has much lower recidivism than crimes like theft or murder. So someone who is a murderer is more likely to commit crimes when released than a rapist.
- kortilla 3y ago
  > But rape? There's no rationalizing rape other than mental illness. 20 year old having sex with a 17 year old isn’t mental illness.
  - hu3 3y ago
    Rape is also about consent, not just age. As an aside, I learned the other day that in Brazil the age of consent is 14: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_South_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_South_Ameri...
    - MacsHeadroom 3y ago
      14 is pretty average globally speaking. It's 16 in most U.S. states, with exceptions often going down to 14 when there is an age gap of 4 years or less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_...
    - KMnO4 3y ago
      The stark reality is that there’s a difference between rape (the crime) and rape (the action). You can be convicted of the crime for a lot of reasons other than lack of consent. A common example of that is a 20 year old with a 17 year old in many states.
  - verall 3y ago
    This obviously isn't what he's referring to and isn't illegal in most states.
    - kortilla 3y ago

lkj34tlk34t 3y ago

[flagged]