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> He had his chances to be a productive, tax paying member of society and he blew it I love this thought that people in the US with felony convictions can just

> He had his chances to be a productive, tax paying member of society and he blew it I love this thought that people in the US with felony convictions can just go out and be: "productive, tax paying member of society". I'll place a wager that if you called <$CURRENT_COMPANY> and ask them if they even HIRE felons, they'll tell you "No, as a matter of corporate policy." So, what then -- work for $10/hr so that you can barely make rent in your project housing and spend your entire life a single injury or natural disaster away from financial insolvency and homelessness? That's a bleak existence to even think about, much less spend a lifetime living. The US criminal justice system is fundamentally broken, and we DO NOT AFFORD convicted felons the opportunity to have a decent life as a normal member of society.

igor47 3y ago
1000x this. I only became a successful, productive member of society because a friend personally asked the CTO of a tech company to approve hiring me despite my computer crimes felony -- and the CTO took that chance. The company later went public for $B and now I am an angel investor and open source contributor etc, but I got lucky that I knew the right person at the right time. Our records follow us forever, and corporations/HR departments do not take risks like that.
- gavinray 3y ago
  If you want to change a life, get a company to hire one person that you know is a decent human being but once made a bad decision. Often, it's that single opportunity that so many of us ever need.
next_xibalba 3y ago
He was not born a drug wholesaler. He made that choice…twice! Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be. But I do agree. People who’ve done their time shouldn’t have to wear a permanent scarlet letter. I just have little sympathy for repeat offenders of very serious felonies. This guy wasn’t a small time street dealer. He is probably partly responsible for many fentanyl overdose deaths.
- macintux 3y ago
  > Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be. I don't understand this perspective at all. "We shouldn't punish them after they've served their time, but let's make sure they don't leave with any new job prospects either."
  - overrun11 3y ago
    Of course it's not the primary goal. The primary goal is to remove people from society so they cannot continue to inflict harm on others.
- gavinray 3y ago
  This is a nuanced topic. I think I probably have more firsthand experience with this subject than most. All I can do is share my own viewpoints: 1. It's not uncommon for hard-opiate users to willingly ingest or even seek out fentanyl. I have multiple dead friends whom I asked repeatedly not to even stop using heroin/fent, but just to consider smoking it instead of shooting it. Opiate addicts live on the razor's edge between life and death where they're alright with taking the gamble every time they push the plunger. It's sad, and heartbreaking, but it is what it is. (My father and his wife are dead from an opiate overdose as well, fwiw. Suspected fentanyl.) 2. There's a very solid chance, given his background and history, that the author was also using himself. If you live with a hard-drug addiction, you eventually become a husk of a person and you will hurt even the people who love you the most, so that you can keep using. Again, sad and heartbreaking, but it's the nature of the demon. One of the worst parts of getting sober isn't often the withdrawal, but coping with the regrets and memories of the decisions you made while using. None of this is to say what was done is okay, or that people ought to have sympathy. But what I do mean to do, is shed some light on what these sorts of situations are really like.
  - macintux 3y ago
    > There's a very solid chance, given his background and history, that the author was also using himself. The author chimed in here and acknowledged that. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38231933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38231933

igor47 3y ago

1000x this. I only became a successful, productive member of society because a friend personally asked the CTO of a tech company to approve hiring me despite my computer crimes felony -- and the CTO took that chance. The company later went public for $B and now I am an angel investor and open source contributor etc, but I got lucky that I knew the right person at the right time. Our records follow us forever, and corporations/HR departments do not take risks like that.

gavinray 3y ago
If you want to change a life, get a company to hire one person that you know is a decent human being but once made a bad decision. Often, it's that single opportunity that so many of us ever need.

next_xibalba 3y ago

He was not born a drug wholesaler. He made that choice…twice! Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be. But I do agree. People who’ve done their time shouldn’t have to wear a permanent scarlet letter. I just have little sympathy for repeat offenders of very serious felonies. This guy wasn’t a small time street dealer. He is probably partly responsible for many fentanyl overdose deaths.

macintux 3y ago
> Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be. I don't understand this perspective at all. "We shouldn't punish them after they've served their time, but let's make sure they don't leave with any new job prospects either."
- overrun11 3y ago
  Of course it's not the primary goal. The primary goal is to remove people from society so they cannot continue to inflict harm on others.
gavinray 3y ago
This is a nuanced topic. I think I probably have more firsthand experience with this subject than most. All I can do is share my own viewpoints: 1. It's not uncommon for hard-opiate users to willingly ingest or even seek out fentanyl. I have multiple dead friends whom I asked repeatedly not to even stop using heroin/fent, but just to consider smoking it instead of shooting it. Opiate addicts live on the razor's edge between life and death where they're alright with taking the gamble every time they push the plunger. It's sad, and heartbreaking, but it is what it is. (My father and his wife are dead from an opiate overdose as well, fwiw. Suspected fentanyl.) 2. There's a very solid chance, given his background and history, that the author was also using himself. If you live with a hard-drug addiction, you eventually become a husk of a person and you will hurt even the people who love you the most, so that you can keep using. Again, sad and heartbreaking, but it's the nature of the demon. One of the worst parts of getting sober isn't often the withdrawal, but coping with the regrets and memories of the decisions you made while using. None of this is to say what was done is okay, or that people ought to have sympathy. But what I do mean to do, is shed some light on what these sorts of situations are really like.
- macintux 3y ago
  > There's a very solid chance, given his background and history, that the author was also using himself. The author chimed in here and acknowledged that. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38231933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38231933