3 ms·

That's kind of a weird study though, it's saying that ketamine while you're on general anesthesia doesn't alleviate depression better than placebo. But to me th

That's kind of a weird study though, it's saying that ketamine while you're on general anesthesia doesn't alleviate depression better than placebo. But to me that doesn't mean much because you don't have a chance to consciously address reasons that you're depressed if you're knocked out, or to experience not feeling like garbage.

Spivak 3y ago
So it's a good study because it's trying to assess why the medication does what it does. You could give me my antidepressants while I was under and when I woke up they would still work the same because it's a physiological change. If it doesn't work when the patient is out it means that the experience of being high is the treatment. Aside: Don't fall into the trap of assuming that depression always has a "cause" that's mental, emotional, or external. I stand as a testament to the "chemical imbalance" cause. I was still depressed and suicidal despite every aspect of my life being good and in otherwise good mental health.
- freedomben 3y ago
  > If it doesn't work when the patient is out it means that the experience of being high is the treatment. I don't think we should rule out the possibility of synergistic effects
- cpncrunch 3y ago
  Also, many people in tgat placebo group also had life changing reduction in depression.
- naasking 3y ago
  > You could give me my antidepressants while I was under and when I woke up they would still work the same because it's a physiological change. I don't like this description because it implies a kind of mind-body dualism. Conscious processing also induces physiological changes, they're just of a different kind than the action of antidepressants. Your conclusion is basically correct though, that the conscious experience of psychedelics must be a critical component of their effectiveness.
- chpatrick 3y ago
  Well, for me personally some substances had a lasting positive effect on my depression and it was because of some of the things I felt and understood while I was under their effect. It wouldn't have worked if I was unconscious. Sometimes depression is a chemical imbalance but sometimes it has underlying reasons.

Spivak 3y ago

So it's a good study because it's trying to assess why the medication does what it does. You could give me my antidepressants while I was under and when I woke up they would still work the same because it's a physiological change. If it doesn't work when the patient is out it means that the experience of being high is the treatment. Aside: Don't fall into the trap of assuming that depression always has a "cause" that's mental, emotional, or external. I stand as a testament to the "chemical imbalance" cause. I was still depressed and suicidal despite every aspect of my life being good and in otherwise good mental health.

freedomben 3y ago
> If it doesn't work when the patient is out it means that the experience of being high is the treatment. I don't think we should rule out the possibility of synergistic effects
cpncrunch 3y ago
Also, many people in tgat placebo group also had life changing reduction in depression.
naasking 3y ago
> You could give me my antidepressants while I was under and when I woke up they would still work the same because it's a physiological change. I don't like this description because it implies a kind of mind-body dualism. Conscious processing also induces physiological changes, they're just of a different kind than the action of antidepressants. Your conclusion is basically correct though, that the conscious experience of psychedelics must be a critical component of their effectiveness.
chpatrick 3y ago
Well, for me personally some substances had a lasting positive effect on my depression and it was because of some of the things I felt and understood while I was under their effect. It wouldn't have worked if I was unconscious. Sometimes depression is a chemical imbalance but sometimes it has underlying reasons.