10 ms·

There is no such thing as an “open” codecs. There are open source implementations of patent encumbered codecs.

by scarface_74 3y ago

jchw 3y ago
Uh huh.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Name one.
  - jchw 3y ago
    No thanks.
rakoo 3y ago
Software patents are only valid in jurisdictions that believe in them. Fortunately the EU still doesn't, and that's why VLC is at all possible.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  So as long as you don’t care about the US market, you as a business can ignore software patents…
  - rakoo 3y ago
    Yep, and that's a few billion people. I think it's alright.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Yes if only money and disposable income was equally distributed https://www.forbesindia.com/amp/article/explainers/top-10-largest-economies-in-the-world/86159/1 https://www.forbesindia.com/amp/article/explainers/top-10-la...
rpdillon 3y ago
This seems correct, but probably leaves most readers with the wrong impression. Theora is a codec that is free and open, and the patents that cover it do not encumber it (since they are also freely licensed), so I'd consider it patent unencumbered. https://www.theora.org/benefits/ https://www.theora.org/benefits/
- scarface_74 3y ago
  So do you think it would be a good use of die space on a processor to support a substandard by today’s standard codec that was last used a decade ago? It is a complete non starter for Apple or any mobile device maker to build in support for a non hardware optimized codec on a mobile device. How does that benefit users besides the ones who bemoan not being able to run Linux on the Apple Pencil?
  - rpdillon 3y ago
    I was simply responding to the query about a non-patent-encumbered codec.
  - jchw 3y ago
    > So do you think it would be a good use of die space on a processor to support a substandard by today’s standard codec that was last used a decade ago? There's a specific reason why Theora was last used a decade ago... Apple. Apple is the reason. There was some other opposition, but in 2009, Apple drove the hardest against Theora being included in the HTML5 spec, and they ultimately won, leaving us with no standard codec everyone could actually agree on. Because the web is supposed to be open, and h264 is not. It being excluded from the spec, you could not rely on Theora support in the browser. > It is a complete non starter for Apple or any mobile device maker to build in support for a non hardware optimized codec on a mobile device. Given that a RPi 5 takes less than a full core to decode h264, I'm not even sure this is a real concern. In my tests, ogv.js is able to decode VP9 at modern resolutions on an iPad without even really making the device warm; it's undoutedly inefficient, but the fact that it can even be done using WebAssembly gives me a feeling that this isn't really the huge problem it's made out to be. For Theora... I mean. It's just not an issue. You can just do it in software. Maybe not in 2009, but certainly today, right now, on any hardware made in the past few years, on one core, without even driving the clocks up. For AV1, yes, sure, this is a real issue; but Apple has been a part of the AOM for years, so I have no idea why they are building machines without hardware AV1 acceleration today. That's a question that only Apple can answer, given that it has real adoption already. > How does that benefit users besides the ones who bemoan not being able to run Linux on the Apple Pencil? Yes sure, let's take a random unrelated detour to make fun of tinkerers who like to be able to reads notes run their own software on hardware they purchased. I'm disappointed, although unfortunately not surprised at all.

There is no such thing as an “open” codecs. There are open source implementations of patent encumbered codecs.

jchw 3y ago

Uh huh.

scarface_74 3y ago
Name one.
- jchw 3y ago
  No thanks.

rakoo 3y ago

Software patents are only valid in jurisdictions that believe in them. Fortunately the EU still doesn't, and that's why VLC is at all possible.

scarface_74 3y ago
So as long as you don’t care about the US market, you as a business can ignore software patents…
- rakoo 3y ago
  Yep, and that's a few billion people. I think it's alright.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Yes if only money and disposable income was equally distributed https://www.forbesindia.com/amp/article/explainers/top-10-largest-economies-in-the-world/86159/1 https://www.forbesindia.com/amp/article/explainers/top-10-la...

rpdillon 3y ago

This seems correct, but probably leaves most readers with the wrong impression. Theora is a codec that is free and open, and the patents that cover it do not encumber it (since they are also freely licensed), so I'd consider it patent unencumbered. https://www.theora.org/benefits/ https://www.theora.org/benefits/

scarface_74 3y ago
So do you think it would be a good use of die space on a processor to support a substandard by today’s standard codec that was last used a decade ago? It is a complete non starter for Apple or any mobile device maker to build in support for a non hardware optimized codec on a mobile device. How does that benefit users besides the ones who bemoan not being able to run Linux on the Apple Pencil?
- rpdillon 3y ago
  I was simply responding to the query about a non-patent-encumbered codec.
- jchw 3y ago
  > So do you think it would be a good use of die space on a processor to support a substandard by today’s standard codec that was last used a decade ago? There's a specific reason why Theora was last used a decade ago... Apple. Apple is the reason. There was some other opposition, but in 2009, Apple drove the hardest against Theora being included in the HTML5 spec, and they ultimately won, leaving us with no standard codec everyone could actually agree on. Because the web is supposed to be open, and h264 is not. It being excluded from the spec, you could not rely on Theora support in the browser. > It is a complete non starter for Apple or any mobile device maker to build in support for a non hardware optimized codec on a mobile device. Given that a RPi 5 takes less than a full core to decode h264, I'm not even sure this is a real concern. In my tests, ogv.js is able to decode VP9 at modern resolutions on an iPad without even really making the device warm; it's undoutedly inefficient, but the fact that it can even be done using WebAssembly gives me a feeling that this isn't really the huge problem it's made out to be. For Theora... I mean. It's just not an issue. You can just do it in software. Maybe not in 2009, but certainly today, right now, on any hardware made in the past few years, on one core, without even driving the clocks up. For AV1, yes, sure, this is a real issue; but Apple has been a part of the AOM for years, so I have no idea why they are building machines without hardware AV1 acceleration today. That's a question that only Apple can answer, given that it has real adoption already. > How does that benefit users besides the ones who bemoan not being able to run Linux on the Apple Pencil? Yes sure, let's take a random unrelated detour to make fun of tinkerers who like to be able to reads notes run their own software on hardware they purchased. I'm disappointed, although unfortunately not surprised at all.