4 ms·

Drug laws are stupid and insane. The government declares that psychedelics have no medical value but the article clearly shows that the pharma industry believes

Drug laws are stupid and insane. The government declares that psychedelics have no medical value but the article clearly shows that the pharma industry believes they do. They just want to take the fun out of it and keep the money. Yes, they have risk, but guess what? Alcohol has zero medical value and has shown to be harmful to the body and to society at large. Same thing with tobacco. The reason these laws remain on the books is too many of our fellow citizens let it happen. Yes, there are problems with creating a free for all with legalization (Portland, I'm looking at you!). But that's a problem with the failure to regulate drugs as well as a failure on medical/mental health services and housing. It doesn't have to be this way folks.

DangitBobby 3y ago
It's not just laws. People like me that have had bad trips and never want to touch another psychedelic because of it (or just people that are afraid of it for other reasons) could benefit from drugs that have that same "reset" effect without the trip.
- pstuart 3y ago
  Absolutely. I should have been clear in my rant -- the work outlined in the article is incredible and should be celebrated. My point is simply that we should have the choices ourselves, and the reason we don't is bullshit. p.s., condolences on the bad trip. I did a lot of psychedelics recreationally in my youth and have had a couple "misadventures" and so I do not do so today. It's powerful stuff and I do plan on trying again but in a therapeutic/spiritual way and will not do so lightly.
- PheonixPharts 3y ago
  Most experience psychonauts consider "bad" trips equally as valuable as "good" trips if your focus is self development. Confronting the things that terrify you the most, that are the roots of deep insecurity that take over during a psychedelic experience are the things we need to confront to move on. I've had my share of "bad" trips, but as I've matured I've realized those trips all contained very valuable information about anxieties I was not ready to consciously address. It's hard to imagine a "reset" effect especially in the cases where a bad trip happens. I think the bigger issue is that when people first try psychedelics they are left alone to deal with a "bad" trip without any guidance of how to process that experience. In which case it truly is a bad trip.
  - pstuart 3y ago
    This is true, but I think it's important to not dismiss that maybe it just wasn't good for that person and they aren't going to get something positive out of it and it's not "their fault". And there are rare cases where people are permanently damaged by it. I have guilt from introducing a friend to it back in the day and he apparently did too much (either dosing or frequency) and was never the same again (in a bad way).
  - naasking 3y ago
    > Confronting the things that terrify you the most, that are the roots of deep insecurity that take over during a psychedelic experience are the things we need to confront to move on. This is exactly what you do in therapy too. I think psychedelics freak people out more because they feel less in control, not realizing they can control the variables that lead to an overwhelming/bad trip.
lightedman 3y ago
"Alcohol has zero medical value" I'm not sure which of my medical certs I'd want to lean on for this, so I'll pick First Responder: Alcohol ABSOLUTELY has medical value. It is one of the most basic sterilization tools utilized.
- j4yav 3y ago
  Is there a medical treatment where people ingest it? Maybe not including alcohol addiction withdrawal?
  - User23 3y ago
    Before better analgesics were available it was used for pain management. Of course getting your gangrenous leg with a musket ball in it sawed off while blind drunk wasn’t a huge improvement, but evidently it was better than doing it sober. Incidentally some modern analgesics have oddly similar effects. I came out of a minor procedure once and for about 10 minutes had markedly lowered inhibitions. I said pretty much whatever came to mind. Thankfully it was nothing awful, but still definitely had that not quite in control feeling.
  - lightedman 3y ago
    It can induce bowel movements within minutes of consumption to relieve constipation.
  - xboxnolifes 3y ago
    Ethanol for Methanol poisoning.
- pstuart 3y ago
  Touché. But you know what I mean ;-)
- freedomben 3y ago
  Agree, pretty much everything has some medical value. I suspect though that when most people use the term, they mean "contemporary groupthink medical practices would use this clinically." IMHO they should pick a new term since this one has prima facie meaning, but alas

DangitBobby 3y ago

It's not just laws. People like me that have had bad trips and never want to touch another psychedelic because of it (or just people that are afraid of it for other reasons) could benefit from drugs that have that same "reset" effect without the trip.

pstuart 3y ago
Absolutely. I should have been clear in my rant -- the work outlined in the article is incredible and should be celebrated. My point is simply that we should have the choices ourselves, and the reason we don't is bullshit. p.s., condolences on the bad trip. I did a lot of psychedelics recreationally in my youth and have had a couple "misadventures" and so I do not do so today. It's powerful stuff and I do plan on trying again but in a therapeutic/spiritual way and will not do so lightly.
PheonixPharts 3y ago
Most experience psychonauts consider "bad" trips equally as valuable as "good" trips if your focus is self development. Confronting the things that terrify you the most, that are the roots of deep insecurity that take over during a psychedelic experience are the things we need to confront to move on. I've had my share of "bad" trips, but as I've matured I've realized those trips all contained very valuable information about anxieties I was not ready to consciously address. It's hard to imagine a "reset" effect especially in the cases where a bad trip happens. I think the bigger issue is that when people first try psychedelics they are left alone to deal with a "bad" trip without any guidance of how to process that experience. In which case it truly is a bad trip.
- pstuart 3y ago
  This is true, but I think it's important to not dismiss that maybe it just wasn't good for that person and they aren't going to get something positive out of it and it's not "their fault". And there are rare cases where people are permanently damaged by it. I have guilt from introducing a friend to it back in the day and he apparently did too much (either dosing or frequency) and was never the same again (in a bad way).
- naasking 3y ago
  > Confronting the things that terrify you the most, that are the roots of deep insecurity that take over during a psychedelic experience are the things we need to confront to move on. This is exactly what you do in therapy too. I think psychedelics freak people out more because they feel less in control, not realizing they can control the variables that lead to an overwhelming/bad trip.

lightedman 3y ago

"Alcohol has zero medical value" I'm not sure which of my medical certs I'd want to lean on for this, so I'll pick First Responder: Alcohol ABSOLUTELY has medical value. It is one of the most basic sterilization tools utilized.

j4yav 3y ago
Is there a medical treatment where people ingest it? Maybe not including alcohol addiction withdrawal?
- User23 3y ago
  Before better analgesics were available it was used for pain management. Of course getting your gangrenous leg with a musket ball in it sawed off while blind drunk wasn’t a huge improvement, but evidently it was better than doing it sober. Incidentally some modern analgesics have oddly similar effects. I came out of a minor procedure once and for about 10 minutes had markedly lowered inhibitions. I said pretty much whatever came to mind. Thankfully it was nothing awful, but still definitely had that not quite in control feeling.
- lightedman 3y ago
  It can induce bowel movements within minutes of consumption to relieve constipation.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  Ethanol for Methanol poisoning.
pstuart 3y ago
Touché. But you know what I mean ;-)
freedomben 3y ago
Agree, pretty much everything has some medical value. I suspect though that when most people use the term, they mean "contemporary groupthink medical practices would use this clinically." IMHO they should pick a new term since this one has prima facie meaning, but alas