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You mean smoking is terrible for you. As the cited studies indicate, nicotine itself (delivered by patched / gum) is fairly harmless. Not completely risk free,

You mean smoking is terrible for you. As the cited studies indicate, nicotine itself (delivered by patched / gum) is fairly harmless. Not completely risk free, but nothing at all like smoking.

trident5000 3y ago
No, I mean nicotine as I clearly indicated in my comment. It's not harmless and its ridiculous to think a drug that constricts the vessels and blood flow in your body would be so.
- mijoharas 3y ago
  Like caffeine?
  - otabdeveloper4 3y ago
    Good thing I don't drink coffee.
  - trident5000 3y ago
    Is that a counterpoint? Pointing to something unrelated from the conversation. Maybe both arnt great for you?
    - hatsix 3y ago
      it's a great counterpoint, because they're is a lot of literature on the health effects of caffeine. > Maybe both aren't great for you? Maybe? You are the one making strong assertions about vasoconstrictors. Maybe you should take this opportunity to challenge your beliefs on this by digging into scientific literature. Also, "aren't great" is such a softening of your original opinion "just terrible". Why argue for your ignorance when there is actual scientific literature?
- insanitybit 3y ago
  > It's not harmless and its ridiculous to think a drug that constricts the vessels and blood flow in your body would be so. Why? Because it increases blood pressure? That's a problem if it's chronic and severe, afaik a milk vasoconstrictive effect isn't going to kill you.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  > its ridiculous to think a drug that constricts the vessels and blood flow in your body would be [harmless] Without knowing more about human physiology, this physiological description is a boogeyman. Someone could describe the physiological effects of eating lettuce while making the same claim about said effect and it would be obvious to a layperson as nonsense only because they know the topic. It’s not ridiculous to think this is possibly harmless in certain contexts.
steeleyespan 3y ago
There's some studies suggesting nordic Snus (like all natural chew w/o chemicals added) is fairly harmless. Anecdotally I've read people highly addicted to it, so very suspicious of any claim that nicotine itself isn't addictive and just smoking is.
- goodluckchuck 3y ago
  That computes with this article which discusses the addictiveness of naturally occurring MAOIs found in organic tobacco.
- Findecanor 3y ago
  Snus is quite common in my country, Sweden. Many users are former smokers who "quit" by using snus instead as their source of nicotine. Users I know have said that they feel that it is highly addictive. Studies of snus users have indicated increased risks of cancer in the mouth, throat and gastrointestinal system but have not been conclusive as to how. There's also a newer type of snus not made from tobacco, with pure nicotine as a separate ingredient, but it has been studied much less. Nicotine is still widely considered harmful for the cardiovascular system though. I've had two surgeries this past year and been told to not even chew nicotine gum for a week before because of how nicotine in my system could lead to complications.
  - steeleyespan 3y ago
    It appears there are some conflicting studies, like with everything. My best interpretation is that nicotine itself probably isn't the-worst-thing-ever if it was restricted to occasional usage, like having a beer on the weekend. It's probably not a good idea to make a habit of though like with coffee. There's a theory floating around that it may help with long-Covid symptoms, but there's not a lot of evidence. This may be in part due to the general opposition towards tobacco as extremely unhealthy. I only heard of this because a neighbor says using nicotine gum restored her sense of smell. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9845100/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9845100/ Again, anecdotally I had a relative, very heavy smoker, who got Delta and had very mild symptoms. She's 80 and in pretty poor health. Others younger in the same household had it much worse. https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-023-00797-0 https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1322...

You mean smoking is terrible for you. As the cited studies indicate, nicotine itself (delivered by patched / gum) is fairly harmless. Not completely risk free, but nothing at all like smoking.

trident5000 3y ago

No, I mean nicotine as I clearly indicated in my comment. It's not harmless and its ridiculous to think a drug that constricts the vessels and blood flow in your body would be so.

mijoharas 3y ago
Like caffeine?
- otabdeveloper4 3y ago
  Good thing I don't drink coffee.
- trident5000 3y ago
  Is that a counterpoint? Pointing to something unrelated from the conversation. Maybe both arnt great for you?
  - hatsix 3y ago
    it's a great counterpoint, because they're is a lot of literature on the health effects of caffeine. > Maybe both aren't great for you? Maybe? You are the one making strong assertions about vasoconstrictors. Maybe you should take this opportunity to challenge your beliefs on this by digging into scientific literature. Also, "aren't great" is such a softening of your original opinion "just terrible". Why argue for your ignorance when there is actual scientific literature?
insanitybit 3y ago
> It's not harmless and its ridiculous to think a drug that constricts the vessels and blood flow in your body would be so. Why? Because it increases blood pressure? That's a problem if it's chronic and severe, afaik a milk vasoconstrictive effect isn't going to kill you.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
> its ridiculous to think a drug that constricts the vessels and blood flow in your body would be [harmless] Without knowing more about human physiology, this physiological description is a boogeyman. Someone could describe the physiological effects of eating lettuce while making the same claim about said effect and it would be obvious to a layperson as nonsense only because they know the topic. It’s not ridiculous to think this is possibly harmless in certain contexts.

steeleyespan 3y ago

There's some studies suggesting nordic Snus (like all natural chew w/o chemicals added) is fairly harmless. Anecdotally I've read people highly addicted to it, so very suspicious of any claim that nicotine itself isn't addictive and just smoking is.

goodluckchuck 3y ago
That computes with this article which discusses the addictiveness of naturally occurring MAOIs found in organic tobacco.
Findecanor 3y ago
Snus is quite common in my country, Sweden. Many users are former smokers who "quit" by using snus instead as their source of nicotine. Users I know have said that they feel that it is highly addictive. Studies of snus users have indicated increased risks of cancer in the mouth, throat and gastrointestinal system but have not been conclusive as to how. There's also a newer type of snus not made from tobacco, with pure nicotine as a separate ingredient, but it has been studied much less. Nicotine is still widely considered harmful for the cardiovascular system though. I've had two surgeries this past year and been told to not even chew nicotine gum for a week before because of how nicotine in my system could lead to complications.
- steeleyespan 3y ago
  It appears there are some conflicting studies, like with everything. My best interpretation is that nicotine itself probably isn't the-worst-thing-ever if it was restricted to occasional usage, like having a beer on the weekend. It's probably not a good idea to make a habit of though like with coffee. There's a theory floating around that it may help with long-Covid symptoms, but there's not a lot of evidence. This may be in part due to the general opposition towards tobacco as extremely unhealthy. I only heard of this because a neighbor says using nicotine gum restored her sense of smell. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9845100/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9845100/ Again, anecdotally I had a relative, very heavy smoker, who got Delta and had very mild symptoms. She's 80 and in pretty poor health. Others younger in the same household had it much worse. https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-023-00797-0 https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1322...