3 ms·

Regardless of past experiences, we all (i.e., the computer industry) know who and what Google is now / today / recently. There is zero doubt of that profile. An

Regardless of past experiences, we all (i.e., the computer industry) know who and what Google is now / today / recently. There is zero doubt of that profile. And yet how many can't even switch browsers? Or make recommendations that avoid the wrath of Google-zilla? They complain with words but are 100% complacent and complicit in their actions. We can't blame Google for that level of laziness. True story: A few months ago I applied for a job. The hiring manager sent a link asking me to fill out a form, a Google form. They had it set up to require you be signed in to Google to see the form. I replied to the manager saying I don't have a Google account, nor do I want one. He sent to form questions via email. But I'm convinced he had no clue as to why anyone would want to avoid Google. When I said there are plenty of less offensive alternatives to Google and I sensed he didn't care.

solardev 3y ago
I think most people wouldn't care. They're there to make money and feed their families, not wage a software holy war. I'm sure you're not the only one he's met who doesn't like Google. He just doesn't care. It's nice that he bothered to send you the questions separately... some might've seen that as a yellow flag, like "I bet this candidate's gonna be a pain. Wonder what else they won't want us to use." All I'm saying is you do you, but don't expect others to follow. There are plenty of evil companies in the world, and it's not like there's a clear moral superiority between Google, Apple, and Microsoft. They're not offensive to most people. They're just more banally evil companies in an ocean of even eviler companies. Tis life under capitalism.
- ta1243 3y ago
  > I think most people wouldn't care. They're there to make money and feed their families, not wage a software holy war. Fortunately 30 years ago people didn't have that view, and that's why we have things like the web and Linux. Alas nobody cares about freedom now.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  And that's exactly the mindset set Google preys upon...short term vision, greed and convenience. Yes, agreed, most people don't know and don't care. However, we're not talking about most people. We're talking about people who due to their profession actually know better. Yet, they put themselves, their families, their friends, their customers, etc. in harm's way? Google is laughing...all the way to the bank. I would suggest reading "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism."
  - solardev 3y ago
    I just don't think most people, myself included (even though I don't work for such a company) share these values. It's not that we don't know, it's just that we don't care. It's a tradeoff we're willing to make. So Google tracks everything and shows ads. So what? It's not really the big deal that privacy warriors make it out to be. My biggest worry about Google is just that they've stopped innovating and are in rapid decline, enshittifying everything while also facing regulatory actions. It might not be around in its current form much longer. That scares me only because it's a huge PITA to have to move everything off of Gmail and GDrive and Android and Chrome and have to find replacements for every minor service they offer. Ugh. The privacy angle just gets a big shrug, as it does for millions of other users. For every person I know who goes out of their way to de-googify their life (there's a couple), dozens of others just don't care at all. It's not what we spend brain time on. Guess what, every company we interact with on a daily basis is out to exploit us and doesn't have our best interests at heart. The car companies and fossil fuel companies are actively killing us, the food growers use dangerous chemicals, Target and Costco sell us mass produced crap... shrug. It's not just surveillance capitalism, it's everyday capitalism.
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      Surveillance Capitalism is a very different beast. "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" isn't just a great book, it might was well a dystopian novel. If you read it your "don't care" won't last long.
      - solardev 3y ago
gtirloni 3y ago
> And yet how many can't even switch browsers? This doesn't work. Appealing to people's emotions about monopolies or privacy does not work. This is a fact at this point; it has been tried repeatedly, and here we are. Anyone who has been around for some time and tried hard to support multiple browsers in the past got burned out. Web developers want to develop; most don't want to be freedom fighters, and rightfully so. The closer this is fixed at the source, the better chance it has to work. Unfortunately, the source seems to be outside the browser's engine internals and other interesting technical areas. I'd argue it's in the human/government sphere, where things are slow and require a lot of energy... who's willing to do that? I'm a nerd. I like to work with technical things. I like to ignore humans and play with machines. None of that will fix the browser monopoly situation (or Firefox/Opera/Brave/etc wouldn't have single-digit market share [0]). 0 - https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/
- ta1243 3y ago
  I use Firefox, have done for years. Maybe it doesn't work for you, but that's your choice to perpetrate a monopoly. > Anyone who has been around for some time and tried hard to support multiple browsers in the past got burned out. Web developers want to develop; most don't want to be freedom fighters, and rightfully so. Heard exactly the same thing from the Microsoft fanboys about IE6 15-20 years ago
spydum 3y ago
Very possible they were a Google Workspace customer, this is a common problem with forms.
bandyaboot 3y ago
You literally suggested Google forms are “offensive” to a hiring manager that initially wanted to use it to get some answers from you? I have a feeling that interaction might have been shared with his coworkers with some amusement.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Not really. What was offensive was the expectation of requiring to be logged in to a Google account. That's a slip up (?) I expect from my mom or dad. It's not something a hiring manager for a tech position should do. If they found that funny - Google being evil - then their sense of humor is as questionable as their IQ.

solardev 3y ago

I think most people wouldn't care. They're there to make money and feed their families, not wage a software holy war. I'm sure you're not the only one he's met who doesn't like Google. He just doesn't care. It's nice that he bothered to send you the questions separately... some might've seen that as a yellow flag, like "I bet this candidate's gonna be a pain. Wonder what else they won't want us to use." All I'm saying is you do you, but don't expect others to follow. There are plenty of evil companies in the world, and it's not like there's a clear moral superiority between Google, Apple, and Microsoft. They're not offensive to most people. They're just more banally evil companies in an ocean of even eviler companies. Tis life under capitalism.

ta1243 3y ago
> I think most people wouldn't care. They're there to make money and feed their families, not wage a software holy war. Fortunately 30 years ago people didn't have that view, and that's why we have things like the web and Linux. Alas nobody cares about freedom now.
chiefalchemist 3y ago
And that's exactly the mindset set Google preys upon...short term vision, greed and convenience. Yes, agreed, most people don't know and don't care. However, we're not talking about most people. We're talking about people who due to their profession actually know better. Yet, they put themselves, their families, their friends, their customers, etc. in harm's way? Google is laughing...all the way to the bank. I would suggest reading "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism."
- solardev 3y ago
  I just don't think most people, myself included (even though I don't work for such a company) share these values. It's not that we don't know, it's just that we don't care. It's a tradeoff we're willing to make. So Google tracks everything and shows ads. So what? It's not really the big deal that privacy warriors make it out to be. My biggest worry about Google is just that they've stopped innovating and are in rapid decline, enshittifying everything while also facing regulatory actions. It might not be around in its current form much longer. That scares me only because it's a huge PITA to have to move everything off of Gmail and GDrive and Android and Chrome and have to find replacements for every minor service they offer. Ugh. The privacy angle just gets a big shrug, as it does for millions of other users. For every person I know who goes out of their way to de-googify their life (there's a couple), dozens of others just don't care at all. It's not what we spend brain time on. Guess what, every company we interact with on a daily basis is out to exploit us and doesn't have our best interests at heart. The car companies and fossil fuel companies are actively killing us, the food growers use dangerous chemicals, Target and Costco sell us mass produced crap... shrug. It's not just surveillance capitalism, it's everyday capitalism.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Surveillance Capitalism is a very different beast. "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" isn't just a great book, it might was well a dystopian novel. If you read it your "don't care" won't last long.
    - solardev 3y ago

gtirloni 3y ago

> And yet how many can't even switch browsers? This doesn't work. Appealing to people's emotions about monopolies or privacy does not work. This is a fact at this point; it has been tried repeatedly, and here we are. Anyone who has been around for some time and tried hard to support multiple browsers in the past got burned out. Web developers want to develop; most don't want to be freedom fighters, and rightfully so. The closer this is fixed at the source, the better chance it has to work. Unfortunately, the source seems to be outside the browser's engine internals and other interesting technical areas. I'd argue it's in the human/government sphere, where things are slow and require a lot of energy... who's willing to do that? I'm a nerd. I like to work with technical things. I like to ignore humans and play with machines. None of that will fix the browser monopoly situation (or Firefox/Opera/Brave/etc wouldn't have single-digit market share [0]). 0 - https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/

ta1243 3y ago
I use Firefox, have done for years. Maybe it doesn't work for you, but that's your choice to perpetrate a monopoly. > Anyone who has been around for some time and tried hard to support multiple browsers in the past got burned out. Web developers want to develop; most don't want to be freedom fighters, and rightfully so. Heard exactly the same thing from the Microsoft fanboys about IE6 15-20 years ago

spydum 3y ago

Very possible they were a Google Workspace customer, this is a common problem with forms.

bandyaboot 3y ago

You literally suggested Google forms are “offensive” to a hiring manager that initially wanted to use it to get some answers from you? I have a feeling that interaction might have been shared with his coworkers with some amusement.

chiefalchemist 3y ago
Not really. What was offensive was the expectation of requiring to be logged in to a Google account. That's a slip up (?) I expect from my mom or dad. It's not something a hiring manager for a tech position should do. If they found that funny - Google being evil - then their sense of humor is as questionable as their IQ.