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They cite that the data in the study was from 2011-2015. Cars have changed significantly in that time so it is worth remembering that the common stability and t

They cite that the data in the study was from 2011-2015. Cars have changed significantly in that time so it is worth remembering that the common stability and traction control, and safety systems on cars sold today are significantly improved from those when this study was performed. A performance automobile or sports car can certainly perform at levels that raise risks. That said I would rather be in an automobile that spends most of its time operating far below its capacity with sufficient performance reserve to handle emergency situations despite being significantly handicapped by a less than perfect human driver.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
> Cars have changed significantly in that time Too bad the drivers haven’t. I get the point that the cars are safer for risky driving but risky driving still doesn’t belong on public roads.
Retric 3y ago
This study is really examining the driver’s behavior not the inherent safety of the cars. The fact such improvements are available on other cars not driven as recklessly means 2023 and 2030 Porsche etc drivers will also be more likely to be involved in an accident. The only only way this changes is if the culture around these brands change or if cars stop allowing people to be in control because as long as someone can decide to drive at 120+ MPH physics dictates inherent risks.
lolinder 3y ago
The point isn't that these cars can perform at high levels, it's that the branding encourages people to. My 2009 Toyota Sienna minivan has more guts to it than I'll ever use (and so it spends most of its time operating far below capacity), but minivan drivers aren't generally known for risky maneuvers and excessive speeds.
mbrameld 3y ago
> That said I would rather be in an automobile that spends most of its time operating far below its capacity with sufficient performance reserve to handle emergency situations despite being significantly handicapped by a less than perfect human driver. What's an example of a modern passenger automobile that DOESN'T spend most of its time operating far below its capacity and/or WITHOUT sufficient performance reserve to handle emergency situations despite being significantly handicapped by a less than perfect human driver?
- TylerE 3y ago
  Try doing a panic stop, or even an emergency lane change, in a Suburban or Tahoe some time.
  - Retric 3y ago
    A panic stop is mostly a question of speed not the cars performance. This means a speeding Porsche has worse handling than a Tahoe driven reasonably. Which is what this study uncovers, performance cars don’t offset reckless behavior.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      That is false. At the same speed, the SUV will have MUCH worse performance. Porsche 911 Turbo braking distance, 70mph-0: 133ft For most typical SUVs, that value is 160-well over 200ft. That's multiple car lengths of distance. Easily the difference between rear-ending someone and not.
      - Retric 3y ago
        You obviously didn’t read what I said. “a speeding Porsche has worse handling than a Tahoe driven reasonably“ On average the SUV and Porsche will not be driven at the same speeds therefore the actual stopping distances should not be calculated using that assumption.
        TylerE 3y ago
        You obviously made up a bizarre tangent that isn't relevant to the original comment at all.
        Retric 3y ago
        It’s directly related to the actual research and counters your original statement. Aka when reality disagrees with your intuition, reality wins. Plenty of BMW etc drivers made panicked stops before dying because they had gotten into a situation where their car and reflexes couldn’t save them from physics. No car can save people from stupid.
jabl 3y ago
Wait, what? - Performance cars tend to be bought by people with risky traffic habits. And no, just because somebody thinks of themselves as having the driving skills of a professional racing driver, and have the fanciest wheels they can afford, doesn't mean their driving skills, or more importantly, their appreciation of risk in different traffic situations, match reality. - Few accidents are caused by lack of performance.
surfpel 3y ago
From the article: “ Research found speeding or jumping a red light less likely in a Skoda or Hyundai than in brands sold as ‘performance driving’” Those safety systems are nearly irrelevant in the face of reckless driving. Most people, including those buying performance cars, are not spectacular drivers.
JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > 2011-2015. Cars have changed significantly in that time Laughs in Porsche selling the same WV Beetle ever since the 1950s /s

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago

> Cars have changed significantly in that time Too bad the drivers haven’t. I get the point that the cars are safer for risky driving but risky driving still doesn’t belong on public roads.

Retric 3y ago

This study is really examining the driver’s behavior not the inherent safety of the cars. The fact such improvements are available on other cars not driven as recklessly means 2023 and 2030 Porsche etc drivers will also be more likely to be involved in an accident. The only only way this changes is if the culture around these brands change or if cars stop allowing people to be in control because as long as someone can decide to drive at 120+ MPH physics dictates inherent risks.

lolinder 3y ago

The point isn't that these cars can perform at high levels, it's that the branding encourages people to. My 2009 Toyota Sienna minivan has more guts to it than I'll ever use (and so it spends most of its time operating far below capacity), but minivan drivers aren't generally known for risky maneuvers and excessive speeds.

mbrameld 3y ago

> That said I would rather be in an automobile that spends most of its time operating far below its capacity with sufficient performance reserve to handle emergency situations despite being significantly handicapped by a less than perfect human driver. What's an example of a modern passenger automobile that DOESN'T spend most of its time operating far below its capacity and/or WITHOUT sufficient performance reserve to handle emergency situations despite being significantly handicapped by a less than perfect human driver?

TylerE 3y ago
Try doing a panic stop, or even an emergency lane change, in a Suburban or Tahoe some time.
- Retric 3y ago
  A panic stop is mostly a question of speed not the cars performance. This means a speeding Porsche has worse handling than a Tahoe driven reasonably. Which is what this study uncovers, performance cars don’t offset reckless behavior.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    That is false. At the same speed, the SUV will have MUCH worse performance. Porsche 911 Turbo braking distance, 70mph-0: 133ft For most typical SUVs, that value is 160-well over 200ft. That's multiple car lengths of distance. Easily the difference between rear-ending someone and not.
    - Retric 3y ago
      You obviously didn’t read what I said. “a speeding Porsche has worse handling than a Tahoe driven reasonably“ On average the SUV and Porsche will not be driven at the same speeds therefore the actual stopping distances should not be calculated using that assumption.
      - TylerE 3y ago
        You obviously made up a bizarre tangent that isn't relevant to the original comment at all.
        Retric 3y ago
        It’s directly related to the actual research and counters your original statement. Aka when reality disagrees with your intuition, reality wins. Plenty of BMW etc drivers made panicked stops before dying because they had gotten into a situation where their car and reflexes couldn’t save them from physics. No car can save people from stupid.

jabl 3y ago

Wait, what? - Performance cars tend to be bought by people with risky traffic habits. And no, just because somebody thinks of themselves as having the driving skills of a professional racing driver, and have the fanciest wheels they can afford, doesn't mean their driving skills, or more importantly, their appreciation of risk in different traffic situations, match reality. - Few accidents are caused by lack of performance.

surfpel 3y ago

From the article: “ Research found speeding or jumping a red light less likely in a Skoda or Hyundai than in brands sold as ‘performance driving’” Those safety systems are nearly irrelevant in the face of reckless driving. Most people, including those buying performance cars, are not spectacular drivers.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago

> > 2011-2015. Cars have changed significantly in that time Laughs in Porsche selling the same WV Beetle ever since the 1950s /s