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I don't believe for a bit that in a relatively densely populated suburban area there are no independent shops, it violates the fundamental presumption of capita

I don't believe for a bit that in a relatively densely populated suburban area there are no independent shops, it violates the fundamental presumption of capitalism which is that there's always an entrepreneur looking to make money out of dry stone. My observation is that literally where there's 10 people, the 11'th one will try to sell them something. Hamlets of 100 houses have 2 grocery stores, 3 bars and a slot machine parlor. I also live in a suburban area in Europe and there's shops everywhere. Noone "planned them", it's just the observation above. And yeah, house prices went through the roof also, probably went up everywhere where there's no war or famine going on regularly. The thing I hate most about housing are traffic jams. The more they build and cram more "affordable housing", the worse the nightmare of getting anywhere becomes. Coze at some point you know, you'll need something that's just not within "walking distance" and then you're funked.

opportune 3y ago
It doesn’t matter whether you believe in it or not lol, it simply is that way. I can send you a Google maps link to somewhere in the US that is a food desert simply by virtue of being a large suburb with residential zoning. My guess is your conception of a suburban area (relatively densely populated?) is a bit different from ours in the US. Also for some reason you seem to think that because your area doesn’t have zoning or enforce it, other places don’t.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
You really should have visited American suburbia before posting that. American zoning is too strict and, due to a sprawl of single-family homes, population numbers too low to permit shops in many suburbs. Once has to leave the maze of residential roads and get onto a main thoroughfare before one will find a convenience store or, often more likely, a petrol station with a shop. And that is too long a distance to reasonably walk even for avid walkers. And if you write "independent shops", that is no longer true of even many European countries. While people do have a nearby shop, it might be typically from a chain (R-Kioski in Finland is essentially a monopoly, Żabka in Poland is omnipresent). The situation of, say, Spain, with its Chinese and Pakistani-owned independent shops, or Romania with its local family-owned shops does not extend over the whole EU.
fragmede 3y ago
https://maps.app.goo.gl/t5WFFQDKNprGs1NXA https://maps.app.goo.gl/t5WFFQDKNprGs1NXA Random suburb in California, USA. Use Google streetview and find a shop within walking distance.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  Not the best example IMO. San Jose is quite urban, and that point on your map is just 2.4 km from Pruneyard Plaza shopping center with its Trader Joes. From various European urban contexts I have lived in, I personally would consider that walking distance. Of course I understand that in the US, where any distance over 250 m involves getting in the car, it wouldn’t be. And also, American street grids tend to have more intersections with waits, so it takes longer to walk short distances.
- tpmoney 3y ago
  So I clicked your link, clicked "search nearby" and plugged in grocery store. From the pin point at your link, there is a Safeway and a Grocery Outlet both within 1 mile of the pin, and there appear to be sidewalks heading to both. 1 mile is definitely something I'd consider "walking distance" (I used to walk that distance to school every day). If you're willing to walk 2 miles, you can get to both a Target and a Home Depot and again as near as I can see, sidewalks the whole way. There's a post office 3/4 of a mile away, 2 elementary schools within a mile and 2 high schools within a 1.5 miles. 2 parks within about a half a mile and and international food market within 1.5 miles. If you want a walkable / bikeable neighborhood you could certainly do a lot worse than this random suburb in California.

opportune 3y ago

It doesn’t matter whether you believe in it or not lol, it simply is that way. I can send you a Google maps link to somewhere in the US that is a food desert simply by virtue of being a large suburb with residential zoning. My guess is your conception of a suburban area (relatively densely populated?) is a bit different from ours in the US. Also for some reason you seem to think that because your area doesn’t have zoning or enforce it, other places don’t.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

You really should have visited American suburbia before posting that. American zoning is too strict and, due to a sprawl of single-family homes, population numbers too low to permit shops in many suburbs. Once has to leave the maze of residential roads and get onto a main thoroughfare before one will find a convenience store or, often more likely, a petrol station with a shop. And that is too long a distance to reasonably walk even for avid walkers. And if you write "independent shops", that is no longer true of even many European countries. While people do have a nearby shop, it might be typically from a chain (R-Kioski in Finland is essentially a monopoly, Żabka in Poland is omnipresent). The situation of, say, Spain, with its Chinese and Pakistani-owned independent shops, or Romania with its local family-owned shops does not extend over the whole EU.

fragmede 3y ago

https://maps.app.goo.gl/t5WFFQDKNprGs1NXA https://maps.app.goo.gl/t5WFFQDKNprGs1NXA Random suburb in California, USA. Use Google streetview and find a shop within walking distance.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Not the best example IMO. San Jose is quite urban, and that point on your map is just 2.4 km from Pruneyard Plaza shopping center with its Trader Joes. From various European urban contexts I have lived in, I personally would consider that walking distance. Of course I understand that in the US, where any distance over 250 m involves getting in the car, it wouldn’t be. And also, American street grids tend to have more intersections with waits, so it takes longer to walk short distances.
tpmoney 3y ago
So I clicked your link, clicked "search nearby" and plugged in grocery store. From the pin point at your link, there is a Safeway and a Grocery Outlet both within 1 mile of the pin, and there appear to be sidewalks heading to both. 1 mile is definitely something I'd consider "walking distance" (I used to walk that distance to school every day). If you're willing to walk 2 miles, you can get to both a Target and a Home Depot and again as near as I can see, sidewalks the whole way. There's a post office 3/4 of a mile away, 2 elementary schools within a mile and 2 high schools within a 1.5 miles. 2 parks within about a half a mile and and international food market within 1.5 miles. If you want a walkable / bikeable neighborhood you could certainly do a lot worse than this random suburb in California.