4 ms·

I sure sapceX don't have department of wildlife. we don't have enough research on this issue, I don't know why it is OK to do anything before we do not have inf

I sure sapceX don't have department of wildlife. we don't have enough research on this issue, I don't know why it is OK to do anything before we do not have information. maybe just like old Big oil companies, just do it before people found what do they do?

jiggawatts 3y ago
I wonder if NASA launches are held up for months waiting for information about how many sharks might be directly hit by their rockets. And then I wonder if they would have to cancel multi-billion dollar missions to deep space if the answer is non-zero. People really need to get a grip and use their common sense for a bit. A hundred workers — humans — died in the construction of the Hoover Dam, and that was considered acceptable. The Starship test could literally bomb the ocean with a nuclear weapon and the ecological consequences would still be worth it considering the benefits to the human race. PS: The US government routinely nuked delicate ecosystems like the Bikini Atolls and I bet they never had to fill out the shark, whale, and seal paperwork. PPS: any individual modern fishing trawler will kill more endangered wildlife daily than Starship might annually in a worst-case scenario. Tell me again why this paperwork is more important than our ascendancy to the stars. Be specific.
- maxlin 3y ago
  This. A thousand times this. Even for just US itself, the Spaceship program might well have a chance to prove to be as existentially important as the Bikini Atoll tests (if we consider that it increased the believability of MAD and prevented nuclear holocaust). If not that, it will likely still make US have an incredible lead in mass to orbit capability which might lead to dibs on, well, whole stellar objects like moons to mine, planet to realistically colonize ...
- rbanffy 3y ago
  > I wonder if NASA launches are held up for months waiting for information about how many sharks might be directly hit by their rockets. NASA has been actively involved in wildlife preservation since the beginning. By doing that they are effectively in control and can design it into their mission operations. https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/blog/07/the-wild-side-of-kennedy-space-center https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/blog/07/the-wild-side-of-... https://www.fws.gov/refuge/merritt-island/about-us https://www.fws.gov/refuge/merritt-island/about-us
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    Is that why SLS launches cost billions of dollars?
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      No. That’s because the SLS was the safe bet, planned at a time when what SpaceX does was considered impossible. SpaceX was unlikely to succeed and it’d be irresponsible for NASA to not have a human rated launcher in case SpaceX failed. Also, it keeps a lot of rocket scientists current, sharp, and happily employed while it prevents them from considering moving to North Korea.
- melagonster 3y ago
  >Be specific you look so angry. I just don't like the attitude that treat all investigation as joke.
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    Governments went on literal witch hunts, recently. Many “investigations” are not done in good faith. Ask yourself a simple question: does the government subject anyone else — especially themselves — to the same scrutiny? Really? Collision studies between space rockets and sharks!?
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> I don't know why it is OK to do anything before we do not have information. Because we never have it. Not once in the history of humanity has anyone done anything with the benefit of all the information. It's simply not possible to know everything about something. Your choices are to do things where you don't know what's going to happen, or never do anything. It turns out this is basically fine, because doing them is one of the best ways to find out what happens. And if it turns out something bad happens, then you can prohibit it, so it doesn't keep happening.

jiggawatts 3y ago

I wonder if NASA launches are held up for months waiting for information about how many sharks might be directly hit by their rockets. And then I wonder if they would have to cancel multi-billion dollar missions to deep space if the answer is non-zero. People really need to get a grip and use their common sense for a bit. A hundred workers — humans — died in the construction of the Hoover Dam, and that was considered acceptable. The Starship test could literally bomb the ocean with a nuclear weapon and the ecological consequences would still be worth it considering the benefits to the human race. PS: The US government routinely nuked delicate ecosystems like the Bikini Atolls and I bet they never had to fill out the shark, whale, and seal paperwork. PPS: any individual modern fishing trawler will kill more endangered wildlife daily than Starship might annually in a worst-case scenario. Tell me again why this paperwork is more important than our ascendancy to the stars. Be specific.

maxlin 3y ago
This. A thousand times this. Even for just US itself, the Spaceship program might well have a chance to prove to be as existentially important as the Bikini Atoll tests (if we consider that it increased the believability of MAD and prevented nuclear holocaust). If not that, it will likely still make US have an incredible lead in mass to orbit capability which might lead to dibs on, well, whole stellar objects like moons to mine, planet to realistically colonize ...
rbanffy 3y ago
> I wonder if NASA launches are held up for months waiting for information about how many sharks might be directly hit by their rockets. NASA has been actively involved in wildlife preservation since the beginning. By doing that they are effectively in control and can design it into their mission operations. https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/blog/07/the-wild-side-of-kennedy-space-center https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/blog/07/the-wild-side-of-... https://www.fws.gov/refuge/merritt-island/about-us https://www.fws.gov/refuge/merritt-island/about-us
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  Is that why SLS launches cost billions of dollars?
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    No. That’s because the SLS was the safe bet, planned at a time when what SpaceX does was considered impossible. SpaceX was unlikely to succeed and it’d be irresponsible for NASA to not have a human rated launcher in case SpaceX failed. Also, it keeps a lot of rocket scientists current, sharp, and happily employed while it prevents them from considering moving to North Korea.
melagonster 3y ago
>Be specific you look so angry. I just don't like the attitude that treat all investigation as joke.
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  Governments went on literal witch hunts, recently. Many “investigations” are not done in good faith. Ask yourself a simple question: does the government subject anyone else — especially themselves — to the same scrutiny? Really? Collision studies between space rockets and sharks!?

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

> I don't know why it is OK to do anything before we do not have information. Because we never have it. Not once in the history of humanity has anyone done anything with the benefit of all the information. It's simply not possible to know everything about something. Your choices are to do things where you don't know what's going to happen, or never do anything. It turns out this is basically fine, because doing them is one of the best ways to find out what happens. And if it turns out something bad happens, then you can prohibit it, so it doesn't keep happening.