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What makes a suburban area a hellscape? Is it unusually hot? Are there a large amount of murders? Just curious what that means since I grew up with the term and

What makes a suburban area a hellscape? Is it unusually hot? Are there a large amount of murders? Just curious what that means since I grew up with the term and years later still bought a house in a city next to a large city which is really an unbroken metropolis without a real green space between. There are a few farms nearby and ranches getting converted to 5 story apartments and 4 lane roads, and that seems less friendly than the small city of homeowners the city has evolved from which is what it was when I bought my house here. Small cities seem nice to me.

t-writescode 3y ago
Nothing is walkable. It cannot pay for itself in taxes because the income is too spread out. You have to use a car everywhere. The proliferation of car-centricness that it encourages also encourages the increase of stroads which becomes a self-perpetuating cycle that forces more car usage, and so on.
- guestbest 3y ago
  It pays for itself with property taxes (Texas) and sales taxes from car dealerships.
  - t-writescode 3y ago
    The property taxes don't anywhere near cover its costs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI
    - guestbest 3y ago
      That’s a link to a video. Just summarize in text what you mean
      - t-writescode 3y ago
        Summary: it cannot pay for itself in taxes because the income is too spread out. To the downvoter: I don't know what more you want. That's the synopsis. The density is too low, so they don't get enough money to sustain themselves with all the infrastructure that is required to have suburbia
      - Terr_ 3y ago
        (Not parent poster) Suburbs generally need more money for their sprawling infrastructure than they can supply with tax revenue from the suburbs. This means that they exist because they're being subsidized by revenue collected from elsewhere, such as from cities. Whether that is fair or exploitative depends on how you figure the math for "how much of the tax collected in the city is actually because-of or from the suburbanites who commute."
        Always_Anon 3y ago
        That's not true for Texas. In Texas, the entire costs of suburbs are paid for in property taxes and utility district fees and bonds. Texas is one of the few states where the majority of taxes collected by the state are property taxes. Or so I was told by a coworker living in Texas when I brought this up.
        Terr_ 3y ago
        > In Texas, the entire costs of suburbs are paid for in property taxes and utility district fees and bonds. The question is how long they can keep taking out more and more debt against the promise of never-ending growth and income from one-time development sales. The answer probably isn't "forever". https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/11/21/choose-your-fate-texas https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/11/21/choose-your-f...
        Always_Anon 3y ago
        This is a predicament everywhere in the US, the suburbs are not alone in this issue of debt financing for... everything...
      - pkulak 3y ago
        When housing is spread out, each house is responsible for so much infrastructure, taxes by the one property can’t hope to cover it.
    - Always_Anon 3y ago
      That's not true for Texas. In Texas, the entire costs of suburbs are paid for in property taxes and utility district fees and bonds. Texas is one of the few states where the majority of taxes collected by the state are property taxes. Or so I was told by a coworker living in Texas when I brought this up.
      - guestbest 3y ago
        Thanks. This is why I brought up Texas. Only the schools funding are from a pool of property taxes due to the ‘Robin Hood plan’ from the 90s. Local roads are country or city maintained from taxes. And the state roads are from state taxes. It’s all logically laid out.
    - lesuorac 3y ago
      I mean with a six-figure income instead of 41k like the video has it becomes pretty sustainable to pay $9200/yr in property taxes. I also bet a lot of people in suburbs of Bay Area / NYC wish they only payed $9200/yr.
opportune 3y ago
Less friendly how? I think you are confusing size with development pattern. A smaller community will always be more friendly than a larger one. The problem with suburbs is when they are forced on a community that has outgrown them.

t-writescode 3y ago

Nothing is walkable. It cannot pay for itself in taxes because the income is too spread out. You have to use a car everywhere. The proliferation of car-centricness that it encourages also encourages the increase of stroads which becomes a self-perpetuating cycle that forces more car usage, and so on.

guestbest 3y ago
It pays for itself with property taxes (Texas) and sales taxes from car dealerships.
- t-writescode 3y ago
  The property taxes don't anywhere near cover its costs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI
  - guestbest 3y ago
    That’s a link to a video. Just summarize in text what you mean
    - t-writescode 3y ago
      Summary: it cannot pay for itself in taxes because the income is too spread out. To the downvoter: I don't know what more you want. That's the synopsis. The density is too low, so they don't get enough money to sustain themselves with all the infrastructure that is required to have suburbia
    - Terr_ 3y ago
      (Not parent poster) Suburbs generally need more money for their sprawling infrastructure than they can supply with tax revenue from the suburbs. This means that they exist because they're being subsidized by revenue collected from elsewhere, such as from cities. Whether that is fair or exploitative depends on how you figure the math for "how much of the tax collected in the city is actually because-of or from the suburbanites who commute."
      - Always_Anon 3y ago
        That's not true for Texas. In Texas, the entire costs of suburbs are paid for in property taxes and utility district fees and bonds. Texas is one of the few states where the majority of taxes collected by the state are property taxes. Or so I was told by a coworker living in Texas when I brought this up.
        Terr_ 3y ago
        > In Texas, the entire costs of suburbs are paid for in property taxes and utility district fees and bonds. The question is how long they can keep taking out more and more debt against the promise of never-ending growth and income from one-time development sales. The answer probably isn't "forever". https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/11/21/choose-your-fate-texas https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/11/21/choose-your-f...
        Always_Anon 3y ago
        This is a predicament everywhere in the US, the suburbs are not alone in this issue of debt financing for... everything...
    - pkulak 3y ago
      When housing is spread out, each house is responsible for so much infrastructure, taxes by the one property can’t hope to cover it.
  - Always_Anon 3y ago
    That's not true for Texas. In Texas, the entire costs of suburbs are paid for in property taxes and utility district fees and bonds. Texas is one of the few states where the majority of taxes collected by the state are property taxes. Or so I was told by a coworker living in Texas when I brought this up.
    - guestbest 3y ago
      Thanks. This is why I brought up Texas. Only the schools funding are from a pool of property taxes due to the ‘Robin Hood plan’ from the 90s. Local roads are country or city maintained from taxes. And the state roads are from state taxes. It’s all logically laid out.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    I mean with a six-figure income instead of 41k like the video has it becomes pretty sustainable to pay $9200/yr in property taxes. I also bet a lot of people in suburbs of Bay Area / NYC wish they only payed $9200/yr.

opportune 3y ago

Less friendly how? I think you are confusing size with development pattern. A smaller community will always be more friendly than a larger one. The problem with suburbs is when they are forced on a community that has outgrown them.