3 ms·

This is a terrible article that rambles on for far too long without offering an actually polite way to tell/request someone to do something. These are the best

by IsaacL 3y ago

This is a terrible article that rambles on for far too long without offering an actually polite way to tell/request someone to do something. These are the best approaches: 1. "Please take out the trash." 2. "The trash needs to be taken out. Can you do it?" 3. (If there are several people around). "The trash needs to be taken out. Who can do it?" Extra consideration: I'm assuming this refers to a context where there's a prior agreement in place that A can tell B what to do (e.g. a business, where B signs a contract stating that he has sold X hours/day to the organisation). It usually should be unnecessary to bark out orders or to beat around the bush -- both are insulting: if B is a functioning adult they accept that they work for an organisation and so need to complete certain tasks. However, direct instructions are rarely necessary for knowledge workers or highly-skilled professionals. Unless things have broken down horribly, they're aware that the success of the business they work for will contribute to their own career success. E.g., instead of "you will write unit tests today" or "would you mind terribly writing unit tests today?", A would do best saying something like "we're introducing too many regressions when we change things, we need a better testing strategy -- let's discuss our approach to unit testing" and then let the team weigh in with their own ideas so they have ownership over whatever is decided.

brailsafe 3y ago
> "they're aware that the success of the business they work for will contribute to their own career success." If this was commonly true, then it wouldn't also be commonly true to feel best served by switching companies every 2 years. Other than simply continuing to be employed, but even that's tenuous and often volatile. > "Unless things have broken down horribly" It's a lucky individual who's never experienced this in their career.
woooooo 3y ago
"Best" has to be subjective here? My personal favorite, combo of 2 listed, would he "I need X to happen"
- timeagain 3y ago
  Subjective it must be, if my boss talked like that it would give me flashbacks to entitled customers I had working in food service. Edit: to expand, the “I need” language has an implicit imperative. Since it is implicit, the listener/employee needs to internalize the command, and internalize the idea that the bosses “needs” are the employees “wants”. Maybe I’m psychologizing too much, but I haven’t ever met someone who talked like that who I could get along with. A baby cries when it needs something, mommy responds. As adults we should handle our own needs by turning them into actions to fulfill them ourselves or requests to have others fulfill them.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    It also suggests people work for the boss and satisfy the bosses needs. The boss is a leader and organizer, not a master, satisfying the needs of the project/team/company. “The trash needs to be taken out. (who wants to | can you) take responsibility for getting it done?”
  - woooooo 3y ago
    I'd feel the same way if I heard it in food service. Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work. If I hear it in the context of both a knowledge job and a high-trust relationship it works way better for me, here is the problem and we need it solved.
    - lelanthran 3y ago
      >> entitled customers I had working in food service. > I'd feel the same way if I heard it in food service. Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work. Hang on, to you, "We need some paper towels at this table" equals "Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work"? Just how sensitive are you and GP? I've actually worked in food service, and a table telling me "we need some paper towels at our table" didn't trigger any negativity in me at all, nevermind the extreme PTSD sort of negativity that that sentence appears to trigger in you and GP. TBH, if you're triggered by the phrase "We need some paper towels at this table", then you probably have ... some sort of condition?
romanhn 3y ago
#3 is actually unlikely to be effective due to the well-studied bystander effect (everyone stands around hoping someone else will help). Asking a concrete person is much more likely to get it done.
- wavemode 3y ago
  Just want to point that the bystander effect (like many classic theories in psychology, it seems) could not be replicated in a real-world study: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_examp... In real life, many people really do jump in to help when they know help is needed.
  - sandman008 3y ago
    No OP, but bystander effect is definitely real. *Anecdotal example* : got immediate response for my email after addressing specific person. This was after repeated appeals for help/response to entire team on same email chain.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> 3. (If there are several people around). "The trash needs to be taken out. Who can do it?" See to me that gives me flashbacks to Target, and that disconnected robot voice on the radios: “Second request, 15 seconds remaining. Who is responding?”
quickthrower2 3y ago
Yeah the there is an abstraction level. Even “take out the trash” is an abstraction. A lot of this minutiae can be handled with coding standards, policies, automated checks and so on. It gets “bossy” when say you need someone to do something out of the ordinary. Take support calls when they usually don’t. That is where emotional intelligence needs to kick in. Depending on culture and context it could be anything from “You are on the phones Frank” to “Sorry guys we don’t normally ask this but…”
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  Not only is "take out the trash" an abstraction, it's actually the wrong abstraction. Wrong abstractions are the mirror image of "technically correct": they're the worst kind of wrong. "Take out the trash" is a well known, predictable, and well defined solution to a well known, well defined, and expected issue. If I were your manager, I'm sure you wouldn't mind me saying to you "@quickthrower2, I'd like you to lead the retro next week," would you? I don't want to put words in your mouth or anything, but if you're anything like 97.3% of people I've worked with, that's not going to faze you in the slightest, provided you feel like you have the skills to do the task. It's a checkbox. Contrast that with "@quickthrower2, you need to reticulate the splines on this project." If "reticulating the splines" is a nontrivial task that doesn't have a well defined solution, that's going to land entirely differently than something like leading a retro. They're totally different scenarios, totally different contexts, totally different expected results.
majkinetor 3y ago
"Please" often repeated, is just noise. If you can't take it without it, you are not an adult and I don't want you in my team.
BryanLegend 3y ago
Even better is just "The trash needs to be taken out." It's better because it respects the person's agency. Source: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk - https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1451663870 https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/14516638...
TylerE 3y ago
Your #3 is just begging for the bystander effect. Giving vague, non-directed instructions to a crowd virtually guarantees that no one does it.

by IsaacL 3y ago

brailsafe 3y ago

> "they're aware that the success of the business they work for will contribute to their own career success." If this was commonly true, then it wouldn't also be commonly true to feel best served by switching companies every 2 years. Other than simply continuing to be employed, but even that's tenuous and often volatile. > "Unless things have broken down horribly" It's a lucky individual who's never experienced this in their career.

woooooo 3y ago

"Best" has to be subjective here? My personal favorite, combo of 2 listed, would he "I need X to happen"

timeagain 3y ago
Subjective it must be, if my boss talked like that it would give me flashbacks to entitled customers I had working in food service. Edit: to expand, the “I need” language has an implicit imperative. Since it is implicit, the listener/employee needs to internalize the command, and internalize the idea that the bosses “needs” are the employees “wants”. Maybe I’m psychologizing too much, but I haven’t ever met someone who talked like that who I could get along with. A baby cries when it needs something, mommy responds. As adults we should handle our own needs by turning them into actions to fulfill them ourselves or requests to have others fulfill them.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  It also suggests people work for the boss and satisfy the bosses needs. The boss is a leader and organizer, not a master, satisfying the needs of the project/team/company. “The trash needs to be taken out. (who wants to | can you) take responsibility for getting it done?”
- woooooo 3y ago
  I'd feel the same way if I heard it in food service. Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work. If I hear it in the context of both a knowledge job and a high-trust relationship it works way better for me, here is the problem and we need it solved.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    >> entitled customers I had working in food service. > I'd feel the same way if I heard it in food service. Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work. Hang on, to you, "We need some paper towels at this table" equals "Corporate motherfucker who doesn't actually work"? Just how sensitive are you and GP? I've actually worked in food service, and a table telling me "we need some paper towels at our table" didn't trigger any negativity in me at all, nevermind the extreme PTSD sort of negativity that that sentence appears to trigger in you and GP. TBH, if you're triggered by the phrase "We need some paper towels at this table", then you probably have ... some sort of condition?

romanhn 3y ago

#3 is actually unlikely to be effective due to the well-studied bystander effect (everyone stands around hoping someone else will help). Asking a concrete person is much more likely to get it done.

wavemode 3y ago
Just want to point that the bystander effect (like many classic theories in psychology, it seems) could not be replicated in a real-world study: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect#Counter_examp... In real life, many people really do jump in to help when they know help is needed.
- sandman008 3y ago
  No OP, but bystander effect is definitely real. *Anecdotal example* : got immediate response for my email after addressing specific person. This was after repeated appeals for help/response to entire team on same email chain.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> 3. (If there are several people around). "The trash needs to be taken out. Who can do it?" See to me that gives me flashbacks to Target, and that disconnected robot voice on the radios: “Second request, 15 seconds remaining. Who is responding?”

quickthrower2 3y ago

Yeah the there is an abstraction level. Even “take out the trash” is an abstraction. A lot of this minutiae can be handled with coding standards, policies, automated checks and so on. It gets “bossy” when say you need someone to do something out of the ordinary. Take support calls when they usually don’t. That is where emotional intelligence needs to kick in. Depending on culture and context it could be anything from “You are on the phones Frank” to “Sorry guys we don’t normally ask this but…”

Paul-Craft 3y ago
Not only is "take out the trash" an abstraction, it's actually the wrong abstraction. Wrong abstractions are the mirror image of "technically correct": they're the worst kind of wrong. "Take out the trash" is a well known, predictable, and well defined solution to a well known, well defined, and expected issue. If I were your manager, I'm sure you wouldn't mind me saying to you "@quickthrower2, I'd like you to lead the retro next week," would you? I don't want to put words in your mouth or anything, but if you're anything like 97.3% of people I've worked with, that's not going to faze you in the slightest, provided you feel like you have the skills to do the task. It's a checkbox. Contrast that with "@quickthrower2, you need to reticulate the splines on this project." If "reticulating the splines" is a nontrivial task that doesn't have a well defined solution, that's going to land entirely differently than something like leading a retro. They're totally different scenarios, totally different contexts, totally different expected results.

majkinetor 3y ago

"Please" often repeated, is just noise. If you can't take it without it, you are not an adult and I don't want you in my team.

BryanLegend 3y ago

Even better is just "The trash needs to be taken out." It's better because it respects the person's agency. Source: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk - https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1451663870 https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/14516638...

TylerE 3y ago

Your #3 is just begging for the bystander effect. Giving vague, non-directed instructions to a crowd virtually guarantees that no one does it.