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The only reason I have Windows is for seamless device driver support. Most things work and don’t break with a system update. I don’t want to spend a single mi

by tcbawo 3y ago

The only reason I have Windows is for seamless device driver support. Most things work and don’t break with a system update. I don’t want to spend a single minute debugging issues on a forum, resorting to OS reinstall due to something being broken, or twiddling with buggy display or wireless settings. I love the Linux desktop. I wish I could pay someone to deliver this experience. But, I don’t believe that I can. I wish I could strip the display off Windows and run it as a hypervisor with a nice hardware abstraction layer for another OS.

the__alchemist 3y ago
I'm with you. Love the idea of using Linux, but couldn't have stated the drawbacks more elegantly. I look at the OS reinstall more like an insurance company totaled your car vice it being at the bottom of a lake: You can always bring a Linux install back to life through a correct combination of CLI incantations in a fallback console, but at a point, it's easier to do a clean install.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  You really only chroot from a live usb stick to your linux root and grub install to recover your boot process, it’s really not that hard. But i agree, would be nice to have a little gui tool - i at least have become too lazy given linux’s recent ease of use.
  - Affric 3y ago
    I agree to an extent. If you are in tech the Linux process shouldn’t be too bad. Installing Arch is a good lesson in learning what you’re doing. Totally doable but you’re spoken to like an adult. I think it’s pretty contrary to most expectations of tech today though.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      I doubt a casual user has a better experience with windows. Actually, it may be worse with windows and it's more likely they will lose data.
      - Affric 3y ago
        I haven’t installed Windows outside of DosBox since XP but there is a similar problem with MacOS occasionally. I know its easier with other distros but I would wager that the vast majority of humans on Earth would give up before they finished installing Arch.
christophilus 3y ago
I mean, it’s worth giving Linux another go. I’ve had far more problems with Windows machines over the years than I have with Fedora since I started driving it (since 2019). Same for my parent’s and family’s computers. Updates have been non-events.
- the__alchemist 3y ago
  I keep telling myself like that. The general fragility hasn't changed much in the past 20 years, but I keep trying.
  - indymike 3y ago
    Between a family of 8 and owning a business with 12 employees, I can tell you conclusively: Least fuss: * ChromeOS * Kubuntu or Neon Linux * MacOS * Windows Enterprise * Windows Most Fuss ChromeOS is great with kids and people who don't need to code or do heavy design work. It's getting better for designers. It's solution for developers is a built in linux container. Kubuntu & Neon are solid. At this point, there are so few sharp edges. For development, aside MacOS and Windows only software... It's great. MacOS is great, but upgrades and Windows Vista like security features make family members call Dad too much. Windows is a PITA that is only tolerable for gaming and even then, makes the kids and the sales team call me way too much. Also, the privacy story is good on one and only one of the above OSes.
BLKNSLVR 3y ago
I've been using Linux exclusively at home for going on five years now (with the only exception being for Android rooting apps, which is infrequent). It has been moderately painful, but for a while now I consider it less painful than dealing with Microsoft's MBA-team's multi-year long stream of howlers. I use Pop!OS as my primary desktop, Debian for servers, and have a separate Ubuntu machine for gaming that very rarely gets used unfortunately. I also think that Pop would do the job for gaming.
- orhmeh09 3y ago
  I use popos as well but I haven't had sound for weeks
  - BLKNSLVR 3y ago
    The volume can be pretty low by default - maybe you've got sound it's just super quiet. I've made that mistake before... I have to put the volume up via buttons on the physical speakers themselves.
rbut 3y ago
When building your next PC stick to a motherboard that uses Intel for everything (or as many things as possible). When selecting a laptop choose one that provides Linux support out of the box, eg Dell XPS 13. I've done the above and never once had a driver issue on Linux.
- orhmeh09 3y ago
  I have a new 17 inch xps and I haven't had sound work for almost a month now.
  - rbut 3y ago
    Are you running Ubuntu LTS? If so HWE or original kernel? I've only had one instance on my XPS where the HWE kernel broke something so I rolled back to the original kernel for a month or so.
    - orhmeh09 3y ago
      I'm using popos that's based on 22.04, although it's at work so I can't check right now. I tried the steps here and also ones listed on stackexchange: https://support.system76.com/articles/audio/ https://support.system76.com/articles/audio/ It's on pipewire. I only get a dummy audio device appearing. It does work when I use an external Bluetooth headset, and it actually did work previously -- I think there may have been a kernel update of some sort, and I tried to start up with an older kernel but no dice. In general, pop os has been a pretty good experience, and I have used it on another work dell laptop (different job) and my Lenovo t480 since I stopped having the inclination to take care of Arch Linux (I might go back at some point, but I don't have much time to mess around anymore).
gumballindie 3y ago
> OS reinstall due to something being broken, or twiddling with buggy display or wireless settings Odd, my only windows laptop somehow got its partitions wrong the other day for whatever reason, when i connect my oled display it flickers (same cable works just fine on linux), wireless and ethernet are slower and i lose a couple fps in games. Also my high end 2023 laptop’s touchpad, wireless, ethernet are not supported without drivers, so when i installed windows i had to plugin an external mouse and a usb stick with drivers. Naturally these all work in linux (mint, pop, manjaro, kubuntu, old and new kernels). The linux experience has really improved (heck i am on nvidia and both hdmi and thunderbolt work flawlessly in kde).
stalfosknight 3y ago
Inconsistent driver quality, some signed, some not, some maintained, some not, is why I left Windows for macOS. I have never ever had to think about or care about drivers on macOS. I would say that is the most seamless driver experience of all.

by tcbawo 3y ago

the__alchemist 3y ago

I'm with you. Love the idea of using Linux, but couldn't have stated the drawbacks more elegantly. I look at the OS reinstall more like an insurance company totaled your car vice it being at the bottom of a lake: You can always bring a Linux install back to life through a correct combination of CLI incantations in a fallback console, but at a point, it's easier to do a clean install.

gumballindie 3y ago
You really only chroot from a live usb stick to your linux root and grub install to recover your boot process, it’s really not that hard. But i agree, would be nice to have a little gui tool - i at least have become too lazy given linux’s recent ease of use.
- Affric 3y ago
  I agree to an extent. If you are in tech the Linux process shouldn’t be too bad. Installing Arch is a good lesson in learning what you’re doing. Totally doable but you’re spoken to like an adult. I think it’s pretty contrary to most expectations of tech today though.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    I doubt a casual user has a better experience with windows. Actually, it may be worse with windows and it's more likely they will lose data.
    - Affric 3y ago
      I haven’t installed Windows outside of DosBox since XP but there is a similar problem with MacOS occasionally. I know its easier with other distros but I would wager that the vast majority of humans on Earth would give up before they finished installing Arch.

christophilus 3y ago

I mean, it’s worth giving Linux another go. I’ve had far more problems with Windows machines over the years than I have with Fedora since I started driving it (since 2019). Same for my parent’s and family’s computers. Updates have been non-events.

the__alchemist 3y ago
I keep telling myself like that. The general fragility hasn't changed much in the past 20 years, but I keep trying.
- indymike 3y ago
  Between a family of 8 and owning a business with 12 employees, I can tell you conclusively: Least fuss: * ChromeOS * Kubuntu or Neon Linux * MacOS * Windows Enterprise * Windows Most Fuss ChromeOS is great with kids and people who don't need to code or do heavy design work. It's getting better for designers. It's solution for developers is a built in linux container. Kubuntu & Neon are solid. At this point, there are so few sharp edges. For development, aside MacOS and Windows only software... It's great. MacOS is great, but upgrades and Windows Vista like security features make family members call Dad too much. Windows is a PITA that is only tolerable for gaming and even then, makes the kids and the sales team call me way too much. Also, the privacy story is good on one and only one of the above OSes.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago

I've been using Linux exclusively at home for going on five years now (with the only exception being for Android rooting apps, which is infrequent). It has been moderately painful, but for a while now I consider it less painful than dealing with Microsoft's MBA-team's multi-year long stream of howlers. I use Pop!OS as my primary desktop, Debian for servers, and have a separate Ubuntu machine for gaming that very rarely gets used unfortunately. I also think that Pop would do the job for gaming.

orhmeh09 3y ago
I use popos as well but I haven't had sound for weeks
- BLKNSLVR 3y ago
  The volume can be pretty low by default - maybe you've got sound it's just super quiet. I've made that mistake before... I have to put the volume up via buttons on the physical speakers themselves.

rbut 3y ago

When building your next PC stick to a motherboard that uses Intel for everything (or as many things as possible). When selecting a laptop choose one that provides Linux support out of the box, eg Dell XPS 13. I've done the above and never once had a driver issue on Linux.

orhmeh09 3y ago
I have a new 17 inch xps and I haven't had sound work for almost a month now.
- rbut 3y ago
  Are you running Ubuntu LTS? If so HWE or original kernel? I've only had one instance on my XPS where the HWE kernel broke something so I rolled back to the original kernel for a month or so.
  - orhmeh09 3y ago
    I'm using popos that's based on 22.04, although it's at work so I can't check right now. I tried the steps here and also ones listed on stackexchange: https://support.system76.com/articles/audio/ https://support.system76.com/articles/audio/ It's on pipewire. I only get a dummy audio device appearing. It does work when I use an external Bluetooth headset, and it actually did work previously -- I think there may have been a kernel update of some sort, and I tried to start up with an older kernel but no dice. In general, pop os has been a pretty good experience, and I have used it on another work dell laptop (different job) and my Lenovo t480 since I stopped having the inclination to take care of Arch Linux (I might go back at some point, but I don't have much time to mess around anymore).

gumballindie 3y ago

> OS reinstall due to something being broken, or twiddling with buggy display or wireless settings Odd, my only windows laptop somehow got its partitions wrong the other day for whatever reason, when i connect my oled display it flickers (same cable works just fine on linux), wireless and ethernet are slower and i lose a couple fps in games. Also my high end 2023 laptop’s touchpad, wireless, ethernet are not supported without drivers, so when i installed windows i had to plugin an external mouse and a usb stick with drivers. Naturally these all work in linux (mint, pop, manjaro, kubuntu, old and new kernels). The linux experience has really improved (heck i am on nvidia and both hdmi and thunderbolt work flawlessly in kde).

stalfosknight 3y ago

Inconsistent driver quality, some signed, some not, some maintained, some not, is why I left Windows for macOS. I have never ever had to think about or care about drivers on macOS. I would say that is the most seamless driver experience of all.