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"In April 2019, upon the order of the Swiss judiciary in a case of clear criminal conduct, we enabled IP logging against a specific user account which is engage

"In April 2019, upon the order of the Swiss judiciary in a case of clear criminal conduct, we enabled IP logging against a specific user account which is engaged in illegal activities which contravene Swiss law. Pursuant to Swiss law, the user in question will also be notified and afforded the opportunity to defend against this in court before the data can be used in criminal proceedings"

protonmail 3y ago
Note that this applies to Proton Mail. Proton Mail is considered to be a communication service, and in most countries (including Switzerland), communication services are regulated to some extent. All companies need to comply with the local law. That being said, Swiss law is very restrictive, and there are a lot of hurdles that one needs to jump through to get a court order. And even with a court order (and has been proved multiple times in court), there is no way to break Proton Mail's encryption. Privacy is not the same as anonymity, and due to the way the internet works, if anonymity is what you are going after, you have to exercise proper infosec and take preventive measures, such as using Tor or VPN. Under Swiss law, the treatment of VPNs is different, and VPNs can indeed be no-logs, like Proton VPN is. No-logs VPN is also possible in other countries as well. What makes Switzerland different, and possibly unique, is that within the current Swiss legal framework, Proton VPN also does not have forced logging obligations. You can find out more here: https://protonvpn.com/blog/transparency-report/ https://protonvpn.com/blog/transparency-report/.
ziddoap 3y ago
A quote with no context or attribution always makes it fun to figure out what someone intends to say with their comment. This quote is in reference to ProtonMail in 2019, a fairly widely reported on case at the time. This would be a point in favor of Mullvad, as Mullvad has demonstrably squashed a subpoena in the past, thanks to their data-minimization policies (no PII for signup, no PII options for payment, diskless infrastructure, etc.). Note that this is more related to privacy, and not as much security. If the parent comment was specifically talking about security, I would recommend reviewing the software and infrastructure audits made available by either company. I'm not aware of any major fault with either, from a security perspective.
woofcat 3y ago
Who is this in reference to? What is the source? Googling for the quote you gave doesn't have great results.
- ziddoap 3y ago
  See my comment above, but it is in reference to ProtonMail. You can find many articles about it (search "Protonmail subpoena 2019"), but an example article is here: https://www.privacyaffairs.com/protonmail-surrenders-user-logs/ https://www.privacyaffairs.com/protonmail-surrenders-user-lo... ProtonMail's own blog post about it is here: https://proton.me/blog/climate-activist-arrest https://proton.me/blog/climate-activist-arrest
- drexlspivey 3y ago
  It's from Protonmail's website https://web.archive.org/web/20190425155330/https://protonmail.com/blog/transparency-report/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190425155330/https://protonmai...

protonmail 3y ago

Note that this applies to Proton Mail. Proton Mail is considered to be a communication service, and in most countries (including Switzerland), communication services are regulated to some extent. All companies need to comply with the local law. That being said, Swiss law is very restrictive, and there are a lot of hurdles that one needs to jump through to get a court order. And even with a court order (and has been proved multiple times in court), there is no way to break Proton Mail's encryption. Privacy is not the same as anonymity, and due to the way the internet works, if anonymity is what you are going after, you have to exercise proper infosec and take preventive measures, such as using Tor or VPN. Under Swiss law, the treatment of VPNs is different, and VPNs can indeed be no-logs, like Proton VPN is. No-logs VPN is also possible in other countries as well. What makes Switzerland different, and possibly unique, is that within the current Swiss legal framework, Proton VPN also does not have forced logging obligations. You can find out more here: https://protonvpn.com/blog/transparency-report/ https://protonvpn.com/blog/transparency-report/.

ziddoap 3y ago

A quote with no context or attribution always makes it fun to figure out what someone intends to say with their comment. This quote is in reference to ProtonMail in 2019, a fairly widely reported on case at the time. This would be a point in favor of Mullvad, as Mullvad has demonstrably squashed a subpoena in the past, thanks to their data-minimization policies (no PII for signup, no PII options for payment, diskless infrastructure, etc.). Note that this is more related to privacy, and not as much security. If the parent comment was specifically talking about security, I would recommend reviewing the software and infrastructure audits made available by either company. I'm not aware of any major fault with either, from a security perspective.

woofcat 3y ago

Who is this in reference to? What is the source? Googling for the quote you gave doesn't have great results.

ziddoap 3y ago
See my comment above, but it is in reference to ProtonMail. You can find many articles about it (search "Protonmail subpoena 2019"), but an example article is here: https://www.privacyaffairs.com/protonmail-surrenders-user-logs/ https://www.privacyaffairs.com/protonmail-surrenders-user-lo... ProtonMail's own blog post about it is here: https://proton.me/blog/climate-activist-arrest https://proton.me/blog/climate-activist-arrest
drexlspivey 3y ago
It's from Protonmail's website https://web.archive.org/web/20190425155330/https://protonmail.com/blog/transparency-report/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190425155330/https://protonmai...