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> Humans find can find a way too Hubris. Philosophically, it is opposed to reason. The story of Icarus is the classic tale of hubris. As a sort of omnipotence

> Humans find can find a way too Hubris. Philosophically, it is opposed to reason. The story of Icarus is the classic tale of hubris. As a sort of omnipotence with unlimited power, it is irrational precisely because it appropriates a belief in the possibility of transcending physical limits.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
The story of Icarus is the story of inadequacies of wax as an adhesive. I'd understand your take, if you wrote this 200 years ago. But holy shit, we've been doing powered, heavier-than-air flight for over a century. People put their footsteps on the Moon, and then they safely came back to tell about it. If anything, I see such takes as a great example why the talks about "hubris" and "playing god" are not just wrong - they're dangerous, perverse, mind-consuming memes. Literally every advancement we've made in recorded history came from ignoring this take on hubris. (To be clear: there exist hubris that is dangerous. It's not this though.)
- cratermoon 3y ago
  > The story of Icarus is the story of inadequacies of wax as an adhesive. You can't be serious, can you? That's really your takeaway? Was it not covered in the schools you attended?
  - randallsquared 3y ago
    It's death-of-the-author applied to stories which no longer make sense as they were originally intended, due to reality being other than what the author believed. This is as true for Jurassic Park as for Icarus, except that the explicitly intended message of JP was obsolete when it was written, and it still was written that way for reasons (money, Luddism, or whatever) other than that anyone should have believed it. It's ironic that a similar message about AI, in 2023, is much more well-grounded, but largely ignored due to decades of crying wolf about nuclear energy, genetic engineering, etc.
- FredPret 3y ago
  A lot of people like the “don’t fly too high” thing because it’s a convenient excuse for them to not reach their potential, which takes effort
ben_w 3y ago
> The story of Icarus is the classic tale of hubris. Ancient Greeks thought the sun was a chariot guided by the hand of Apollo. Meanwhile in real life, we've been to the moon and back in the Apollo program and that name was chosen deliberately. Hubris is specifically extreme or excessive pride, or dangerous overconfidence — if you're genuinely better, for whatever reason, it's not hubris. Doesn't matter why, it could you use maths to prove your vehicle won't melt, or that you starting Dinosaur Island with just herbivores until you know more about the gene splicing tech and only then introduced one carnivore that can be all alone with nothing but a tire on a rope for company like some zoological gardens look like they do with tigers. With AI? I think quite a lot of the development is absolutely hubris. But if you want an effective example there, it's hubris to use Ancient Greek mythology as your example. Instead, use a modern reference from the real world — there are many modern military examples (the US has Bay of Pigs and Vietnam, WW2 had Pearl Harbour and Germany attempting Blitzkrieg on the USSR, and now Russia is repeating all of the USA's mistakes from Vietnam with their invasion of Ukraine) or you could have many companies with grand visions followed by collapsing valuations (X being only the most recent in major headlines, and nowhere near the most severe).

TeMPOraL 3y ago

The story of Icarus is the story of inadequacies of wax as an adhesive. I'd understand your take, if you wrote this 200 years ago. But holy shit, we've been doing powered, heavier-than-air flight for over a century. People put their footsteps on the Moon, and then they safely came back to tell about it. If anything, I see such takes as a great example why the talks about "hubris" and "playing god" are not just wrong - they're dangerous, perverse, mind-consuming memes. Literally every advancement we've made in recorded history came from ignoring this take on hubris. (To be clear: there exist hubris that is dangerous. It's not this though.)

cratermoon 3y ago
> The story of Icarus is the story of inadequacies of wax as an adhesive. You can't be serious, can you? That's really your takeaway? Was it not covered in the schools you attended?
- randallsquared 3y ago
  It's death-of-the-author applied to stories which no longer make sense as they were originally intended, due to reality being other than what the author believed. This is as true for Jurassic Park as for Icarus, except that the explicitly intended message of JP was obsolete when it was written, and it still was written that way for reasons (money, Luddism, or whatever) other than that anyone should have believed it. It's ironic that a similar message about AI, in 2023, is much more well-grounded, but largely ignored due to decades of crying wolf about nuclear energy, genetic engineering, etc.
FredPret 3y ago
A lot of people like the “don’t fly too high” thing because it’s a convenient excuse for them to not reach their potential, which takes effort

ben_w 3y ago

> The story of Icarus is the classic tale of hubris. Ancient Greeks thought the sun was a chariot guided by the hand of Apollo. Meanwhile in real life, we've been to the moon and back in the Apollo program and that name was chosen deliberately. Hubris is specifically extreme or excessive pride, or dangerous overconfidence — if you're genuinely better, for whatever reason, it's not hubris. Doesn't matter why, it could you use maths to prove your vehicle won't melt, or that you starting Dinosaur Island with just herbivores until you know more about the gene splicing tech and only then introduced one carnivore that can be all alone with nothing but a tire on a rope for company like some zoological gardens look like they do with tigers. With AI? I think quite a lot of the development is absolutely hubris. But if you want an effective example there, it's hubris to use Ancient Greek mythology as your example. Instead, use a modern reference from the real world — there are many modern military examples (the US has Bay of Pigs and Vietnam, WW2 had Pearl Harbour and Germany attempting Blitzkrieg on the USSR, and now Russia is repeating all of the USA's mistakes from Vietnam with their invasion of Ukraine) or you could have many companies with grand visions followed by collapsing valuations (X being only the most recent in major headlines, and nowhere near the most severe).