4 ms·

Someone fell out of favor with the San Francisco government. Remember: the whole point of bribery is not just for the briber to gain an unfair market advantage

Someone fell out of favor with the San Francisco government. Remember: the whole point of bribery is not just for the briber to gain an unfair market advantage. It also lets the bribee unaccountably extract phantom taxes from the wider economy. Furthermore, because participation in this system is illegal, the bribee can further blackmail the briber into paying additional bribes to avoid prosecution. Naive prosecutions of corruption can, ironically, institutionalize it.

jeffbee 3y ago
It's a federal case. SF's system is almost intentionally designed to breed corruption. The reason is that elected officials are aligned with "community organizations" which are just extortion outfits, but favored ones, like MAC or TODCO. SF's policies direct the flow of bribes into these organizations, who if left un-bribed will sue to stop your project, and the groups in turn kick part of the money back into campaigns.
- primitivesuave 3y ago
  TODCO stopped construction on thousands of housing units for over 2 years by simply having a BoS member (Dean Preston) convince the board to perform a "race and equity study" that never happened [1]. They also refused to fire one of their directors who had sexually assaulted multiple people and left evidence of his crimes. 1. https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/san-francisco-housing-17408816.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article...
- fuzzfactor 3y ago
  >SF's system is almost intentionally designed to breed corruption. One of the reasons for byzantine regulations and procedures in the first place is exactly to extract extraneous informal payments to those in position to smooth over the roadbumps which their kind created to begin with. It's the New Jersey way, badda-boom-badda-bing!
- renewiltord 3y ago
  This is such a common thing in third-world countries that people who lived there can see it in SF immediately. It's very obvious, but I've found that Americans are a very honour-and-pride based culture, so it's best not to inform them that they're being suckered or they'll get upset at the messenger rather than the conman and will work very hard to believe anything but fact.
bluejekyll 3y ago
> extract phantom taxes I don’t think this is a good characterization of bribery. Probably just better to say “extract money” or “personal profit”, taxes are not bribery and are used to support government’s ability to do things like maintain infrastructure, pay for schools, etc. They are not generally for enriching individuals, unless there is also fraud going on.
- vlovich123 3y ago
  You’re nitpicking unnecessarily. OP meant it’s a tax on the efficiency of the broader economy directed into private pockets. The word tax is not limited to fees imposed by the government. On the other hand even if limited to government fees, OP still described it accurately because it’s a tax levied by members of the government essentially in their official capacity but illegally and directed into private coffers.
vkou 3y ago
> Furthermore, because participation in this system is illegal, the bribee can further blackmail the briber into paying additional bribes to avoid prosecution. 1. Receiving bribes is just as illegal as paying them. 2. Good luck stopping a federal prosecution when you're some municipal politician.
akira2501 3y ago
> Someone fell out of favor with the San Francisco government. Someone has decided that rank cynicism is the fastest route to justifying criminal behavior. > the whole point of bribery Bribery is a tool of convenience not an end unto itself. > the bribee can further blackmail the briber This assumes the the "briber" has no proof of the transaction or no standing to present it. If they do, then this logic fails to be applicable. > Naive prosecutions of corruption can, ironically, institutionalize it. Um. How?
- InSteady 3y ago
  > Naive prosecutions of corruption can, ironically, institutionalize it. Um. How? Well, if only new players and small fish get caught up in bribery charges (because the big and old players are so institutionalized they have almost no exposure and thus no risk outside of vendettas and such), bribery and prosecution of bribery actually ends up looking like the barriers for entry we see in over-regulated industries. Many times the biggest companies in a given industry actually lobby for onerous regulations because they know how to get around them (or can simply afford the immense costs with all their existing wealth), meanwhile they sleep easily at night knowing that new players are going to be burning cash with insane risk exposure just trying to get a foothold in a system of perverse incentives and broken policy. Bribery at the local level could very easily function in the same way to further stratify the local money/power structures.
ponector 3y ago
Also there is a legal form of bribe, called 'facilitation payment'.
- askin4it 3y ago
  Rabbit hole warning
- renewiltord 3y ago
  I'm not a briber, I'm a permit expediter.

jeffbee 3y ago

It's a federal case. SF's system is almost intentionally designed to breed corruption. The reason is that elected officials are aligned with "community organizations" which are just extortion outfits, but favored ones, like MAC or TODCO. SF's policies direct the flow of bribes into these organizations, who if left un-bribed will sue to stop your project, and the groups in turn kick part of the money back into campaigns.

primitivesuave 3y ago
TODCO stopped construction on thousands of housing units for over 2 years by simply having a BoS member (Dean Preston) convince the board to perform a "race and equity study" that never happened [1]. They also refused to fire one of their directors who had sexually assaulted multiple people and left evidence of his crimes. 1. https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/san-francisco-housing-17408816.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article...
fuzzfactor 3y ago
>SF's system is almost intentionally designed to breed corruption. One of the reasons for byzantine regulations and procedures in the first place is exactly to extract extraneous informal payments to those in position to smooth over the roadbumps which their kind created to begin with. It's the New Jersey way, badda-boom-badda-bing!
renewiltord 3y ago
This is such a common thing in third-world countries that people who lived there can see it in SF immediately. It's very obvious, but I've found that Americans are a very honour-and-pride based culture, so it's best not to inform them that they're being suckered or they'll get upset at the messenger rather than the conman and will work very hard to believe anything but fact.

bluejekyll 3y ago

> extract phantom taxes I don’t think this is a good characterization of bribery. Probably just better to say “extract money” or “personal profit”, taxes are not bribery and are used to support government’s ability to do things like maintain infrastructure, pay for schools, etc. They are not generally for enriching individuals, unless there is also fraud going on.

vlovich123 3y ago
You’re nitpicking unnecessarily. OP meant it’s a tax on the efficiency of the broader economy directed into private pockets. The word tax is not limited to fees imposed by the government. On the other hand even if limited to government fees, OP still described it accurately because it’s a tax levied by members of the government essentially in their official capacity but illegally and directed into private coffers.

vkou 3y ago

> Furthermore, because participation in this system is illegal, the bribee can further blackmail the briber into paying additional bribes to avoid prosecution. 1. Receiving bribes is just as illegal as paying them. 2. Good luck stopping a federal prosecution when you're some municipal politician.

akira2501 3y ago

> Someone fell out of favor with the San Francisco government. Someone has decided that rank cynicism is the fastest route to justifying criminal behavior. > the whole point of bribery Bribery is a tool of convenience not an end unto itself. > the bribee can further blackmail the briber This assumes the the "briber" has no proof of the transaction or no standing to present it. If they do, then this logic fails to be applicable. > Naive prosecutions of corruption can, ironically, institutionalize it. Um. How?

InSteady 3y ago
> Naive prosecutions of corruption can, ironically, institutionalize it. Um. How? Well, if only new players and small fish get caught up in bribery charges (because the big and old players are so institutionalized they have almost no exposure and thus no risk outside of vendettas and such), bribery and prosecution of bribery actually ends up looking like the barriers for entry we see in over-regulated industries. Many times the biggest companies in a given industry actually lobby for onerous regulations because they know how to get around them (or can simply afford the immense costs with all their existing wealth), meanwhile they sleep easily at night knowing that new players are going to be burning cash with insane risk exposure just trying to get a foothold in a system of perverse incentives and broken policy. Bribery at the local level could very easily function in the same way to further stratify the local money/power structures.

ponector 3y ago

Also there is a legal form of bribe, called 'facilitation payment'.

askin4it 3y ago
Rabbit hole warning
renewiltord 3y ago
I'm not a briber, I'm a permit expediter.