4 ms·

> So if someone asks, you have to produce proof of ownership I mean, I don't think EA can barge in and demand you prove you bought a copy of Dungeon Keeper bac

by orra 3y ago

> So if someone asks, you have to produce proof of ownership I mean, I don't think EA can barge in and demand you prove you bought a copy of Dungeon Keeper back in the day (or since), just because you're running KeeperFX. I think the practical matter is mainly that KeeperFX can't redistribute the artwork and levels themselves. So, as another user said, you need to copy over the files from GOG or a CD, etc.

AlecSchueler 3y ago
That means you still need the original then? What am I missing? Or what's the material difference between downloading the assets and downloading the entire executable?
- setr 3y ago
  you need the original assets. KeeperFX replaces the executable and doesn’t ship with the original assets, because it’s not theirs to distribute. The question is simply how you obtain the assets. You don’t have a purchase/download option available to only acquire the assets, so you’ll inevitably purchase & download original assets + original executable, discard the original executable and use original assets + keeperfx executable. Or you’ll acquire the original assets alone through nefarious means and can then just use it with the keeperfx executable. Technically I don’t think you can be requested to provide proof of ownership, but keeperfx can definitely be taken down for distribution of assets they don’t own. So the acquisition of those assets falls on you to resolve and is outside their concern. They can only recommend you to purchase the rights to those assets from the proper rights-holders.
- kroltan 3y ago
  That it can be distributed, and that there is source available for modifications, expansions, and ports to modern systems. Generally game assets don't depend on the external environment like code does. Sure, porting is still a lot of work (which I don't think has been done for this one), but it's less work than porting an arbitrary executable. But most importantly, not everything has to be a product with a practical benefit for the user, if the project goal is to be able to be a drop in replacement for all the code, and it does it, and the people involved are fulfilled, that is perfectly enough.
  - orra 3y ago
    Ports to modern systems is a very practical benefit, which they achieved. IIRC GOG runs the DOS version of Dungeon Keeper on DOSBox, because the Windows version doesn't run on modern Windows. This means users miss out on the higher quality graphics mode.
  - Loobinex 3y ago
    The practical benefit here is not to make DK1 free, but to make DK1 better. It's a Fan eXpansion, and while we needed to be propped up by the original game code there was only so much we could do. Say, maps where limited to 85x85 slabs up until now, but in KeeperFX we allow maps up to 170x170 slabs in size.
- exDM69 3y ago
  The original game does not work great on modern operating systems and screen resolutions etc. Text sizes, GUI scaling is usually way off in games from this era. Using the "modernized" open source engine gives you a better experience. There are also improvements to the user interface that weren't a part of the original. Same goes for many other remakes.
  - AlecSchueler 3y ago
    I get that but the person above said that with this release the original game was no longer needed, except you still need to get the original assets from the original game?
    - Loobinex 3y ago
      You still need to own the original game to play it. To keep the rights holder happy we check if you have a DK version installed or on CD. The big change is that the game does not use the functions from the original game to run anymore. All previous versions used a dll made from the original game as a crutch, so players would have the full experience on a partly made remake. This made the game fully playable from day 1, but it also meant we were limited in a big way in what kind of changes we could make. For example if Dungeon Keeper believed there were only 32 types of creatures, KeeperFX could not push anything related to a 33th creature type to the original DLL which meant we just had 32 creature types too. Now the number of creatures types comes from a user editable config file. tldr: KeeperFX is there to make DK better, it does not make free.
- xsmasher 3y ago
  From the end user POV, no difference - you still need to provide the original game files in order to play. From an engineering POV it's great that it no longer needs to call into the old executable; they may be able to drop some legacy code and change some internal types, clearing the road to more changes in the future.

by orra 3y ago

AlecSchueler 3y ago

That means you still need the original then? What am I missing? Or what's the material difference between downloading the assets and downloading the entire executable?

setr 3y ago
you need the original assets. KeeperFX replaces the executable and doesn’t ship with the original assets, because it’s not theirs to distribute. The question is simply how you obtain the assets. You don’t have a purchase/download option available to only acquire the assets, so you’ll inevitably purchase & download original assets + original executable, discard the original executable and use original assets + keeperfx executable. Or you’ll acquire the original assets alone through nefarious means and can then just use it with the keeperfx executable. Technically I don’t think you can be requested to provide proof of ownership, but keeperfx can definitely be taken down for distribution of assets they don’t own. So the acquisition of those assets falls on you to resolve and is outside their concern. They can only recommend you to purchase the rights to those assets from the proper rights-holders.
kroltan 3y ago
That it can be distributed, and that there is source available for modifications, expansions, and ports to modern systems. Generally game assets don't depend on the external environment like code does. Sure, porting is still a lot of work (which I don't think has been done for this one), but it's less work than porting an arbitrary executable. But most importantly, not everything has to be a product with a practical benefit for the user, if the project goal is to be able to be a drop in replacement for all the code, and it does it, and the people involved are fulfilled, that is perfectly enough.
- orra 3y ago
  Ports to modern systems is a very practical benefit, which they achieved. IIRC GOG runs the DOS version of Dungeon Keeper on DOSBox, because the Windows version doesn't run on modern Windows. This means users miss out on the higher quality graphics mode.
- Loobinex 3y ago
  The practical benefit here is not to make DK1 free, but to make DK1 better. It's a Fan eXpansion, and while we needed to be propped up by the original game code there was only so much we could do. Say, maps where limited to 85x85 slabs up until now, but in KeeperFX we allow maps up to 170x170 slabs in size.
exDM69 3y ago
The original game does not work great on modern operating systems and screen resolutions etc. Text sizes, GUI scaling is usually way off in games from this era. Using the "modernized" open source engine gives you a better experience. There are also improvements to the user interface that weren't a part of the original. Same goes for many other remakes.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  I get that but the person above said that with this release the original game was no longer needed, except you still need to get the original assets from the original game?
  - Loobinex 3y ago
    You still need to own the original game to play it. To keep the rights holder happy we check if you have a DK version installed or on CD. The big change is that the game does not use the functions from the original game to run anymore. All previous versions used a dll made from the original game as a crutch, so players would have the full experience on a partly made remake. This made the game fully playable from day 1, but it also meant we were limited in a big way in what kind of changes we could make. For example if Dungeon Keeper believed there were only 32 types of creatures, KeeperFX could not push anything related to a 33th creature type to the original DLL which meant we just had 32 creature types too. Now the number of creatures types comes from a user editable config file. tldr: KeeperFX is there to make DK better, it does not make free.
xsmasher 3y ago
From the end user POV, no difference - you still need to provide the original game files in order to play. From an engineering POV it's great that it no longer needs to call into the old executable; they may be able to drop some legacy code and change some internal types, clearing the road to more changes in the future.