4 ms·

Eltanin Antenna

99 points by pyinstallwoes 3y ago

fred_is_fred 3y ago
Not implemented due to protests, with no citation. 6000 miles of underground cables and 100 power plants was not implemented due to budget, almost certainly. The protests weren’t even required.
uoaei 3y ago
Has anyone done modeling on what capabilities for which frequencies it would have if it were an antenna? Has anyone gone back to reimage it?
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  In general, antennas do not work underwater. There is a very specific exception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine (Also, if it is a Chondrocladia concrescens sponge, it's unlikely to still be alive and in the same place, 60 years later.)
  - Avshalom 3y ago
    I love that the article states it "would have required a giant antenna covering two-fifths of the state of Wisconsin... was never implemented because of protests and potential environmental impact" Yeah, i'm sure it was those damned hippies not the wild impracticality of covering half of wisconsin.
    - lvass 3y ago
      That's just the area formed by the grid of underground cables.
    - ahmedfromtunis 3y ago
      They don't have to actually cover that much space; not even close. It is actually possible to emulate an arbitrarily giant antenna using an array of antennas.
      - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
        How is that so?
    - VHRanger 3y ago
      What are we using Wisconsin for right now anyway
      - rapjr9 3y ago
        Making sausage, cheese, beer, and heavy machinery.
- ajross 3y ago
  > Has anyone gone back to reimage it? It's a sponge from 60 years ago. I daresay they'll have trouble finding it.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    It was mostly a rhetorical question given this obvious fact but I figured the idea of due diligence in pursuit of science did come up at some point.
firebaze 3y ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/marinebiology/comments/lt1mh6/this_is_an_image_of_the_eltanin_antenna_a/?rdt=62067 https://old.reddit.com/r/marinebiology/comments/lt1mh6/this_...
- romusha 3y ago
  [flagged]
aaron695 3y ago
Wikipedia should not be using that drawing for a Chondrocladia concrescens, it also on the main C. concrescens page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondrocladia_concrescens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondrocladia_concrescens Everyone knows when you bring deep sea creators to the surface they look different. It's far more obvious from pictures taken in place - https://twitter.com/DrCraigMc/status/1366534723145781251/photo/1 https://twitter.com/DrCraigMc/status/1366534723145781251/pho... https://www.flickr.com/photos/oceanaeurope/15285657515 https://www.flickr.com/photos/oceanaeurope/15285657515 It's a shame they didn't see a Chondrocladia lyra in the original expedition, much better for lore, but I guess being pre-internet savages the lyra wouldn't even look like an antenna to them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3tAtXdaik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3tAtXdaik
- pyinstallwoes 3y ago
  Your examples don’t have the same angles as the Wikipedia article in question. I don’t see the same amount of appendages at all or in squared angle intersections. Furthermore to have 90 degree angles in water from drifting appendages all line up at a convenient moment seems absurd.
- GauntletWizard 3y ago
  That drawing looks no more different to me than any other naturalist drawing of a plant showing a preserved sample to detail texture and shape compared to a life drawing version. I imagine anyone who's seen kelp in and out of water would get the correct impression
- groceryheist 3y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out. It would be nice to have a public domain or creative-commons licensed image to use instead.
  - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
    If only there was evidence indeed
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
Even more antenna-like. But still a sponge. https://www.mbari.org/news/scientists-discover-extraordinary-new-carnivorous-sponge/ https://www.mbari.org/news/scientists-discover-extraordinary...
- pyinstallwoes 3y ago
  What’s most peculiar of Eltanin is the 90 degree angles. Nature rarely has multiple if any 90 degree offsets for growth.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    I wonder what aquatic aliens would think the first time they saw a pine tree.
    - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
      They’d probably expect to find phi distributions in many things and it’s ancillary patterns in nature.

99 points by pyinstallwoes 3y ago

Not implemented due to protests, with no citation. 6000 miles of underground cables and 100 power plants was not implemented due to budget, almost certainly. The protests weren’t even required.

uoaei 3y ago

Has anyone done modeling on what capabilities for which frequencies it would have if it were an antenna? Has anyone gone back to reimage it?

LeoPanthera 3y ago
In general, antennas do not work underwater. There is a very specific exception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine (Also, if it is a Chondrocladia concrescens sponge, it's unlikely to still be alive and in the same place, 60 years later.)
- Avshalom 3y ago
  I love that the article states it "would have required a giant antenna covering two-fifths of the state of Wisconsin... was never implemented because of protests and potential environmental impact" Yeah, i'm sure it was those damned hippies not the wild impracticality of covering half of wisconsin.
  - lvass 3y ago
    That's just the area formed by the grid of underground cables.
  - ahmedfromtunis 3y ago
    They don't have to actually cover that much space; not even close. It is actually possible to emulate an arbitrarily giant antenna using an array of antennas.
    - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
      How is that so?
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    What are we using Wisconsin for right now anyway
    - rapjr9 3y ago
      Making sausage, cheese, beer, and heavy machinery.
ajross 3y ago
> Has anyone gone back to reimage it? It's a sponge from 60 years ago. I daresay they'll have trouble finding it.
- uoaei 3y ago
  It was mostly a rhetorical question given this obvious fact but I figured the idea of due diligence in pursuit of science did come up at some point.

firebaze 3y ago

https://old.reddit.com/r/marinebiology/comments/lt1mh6/this_is_an_image_of_the_eltanin_antenna_a/?rdt=62067 https://old.reddit.com/r/marinebiology/comments/lt1mh6/this_...

romusha 3y ago
[flagged]

aaron695 3y ago

Wikipedia should not be using that drawing for a Chondrocladia concrescens, it also on the main C. concrescens page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondrocladia_concrescens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondrocladia_concrescens Everyone knows when you bring deep sea creators to the surface they look different. It's far more obvious from pictures taken in place - https://twitter.com/DrCraigMc/status/1366534723145781251/photo/1 https://twitter.com/DrCraigMc/status/1366534723145781251/pho... https://www.flickr.com/photos/oceanaeurope/15285657515 https://www.flickr.com/photos/oceanaeurope/15285657515 It's a shame they didn't see a Chondrocladia lyra in the original expedition, much better for lore, but I guess being pre-internet savages the lyra wouldn't even look like an antenna to them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3tAtXdaik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3tAtXdaik

pyinstallwoes 3y ago
Your examples don’t have the same angles as the Wikipedia article in question. I don’t see the same amount of appendages at all or in squared angle intersections. Furthermore to have 90 degree angles in water from drifting appendages all line up at a convenient moment seems absurd.
GauntletWizard 3y ago
That drawing looks no more different to me than any other naturalist drawing of a plant showing a preserved sample to detail texture and shape compared to a life drawing version. I imagine anyone who's seen kelp in and out of water would get the correct impression
groceryheist 3y ago
Thanks for pointing this out. It would be nice to have a public domain or creative-commons licensed image to use instead.
- pyinstallwoes 3y ago
  If only there was evidence indeed

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

Even more antenna-like. But still a sponge. https://www.mbari.org/news/scientists-discover-extraordinary-new-carnivorous-sponge/ https://www.mbari.org/news/scientists-discover-extraordinary...

pyinstallwoes 3y ago
What’s most peculiar of Eltanin is the 90 degree angles. Nature rarely has multiple if any 90 degree offsets for growth.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  I wonder what aquatic aliens would think the first time they saw a pine tree.
  - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
    They’d probably expect to find phi distributions in many things and it’s ancillary patterns in nature.