4 ms·

Super weird then since putin has taken greater than 50% of the votes since 2000 (nearly 80% in the last election) Maybe some Russians don't want to sleep in the

by scrps 3y ago

Super weird then since putin has taken greater than 50% of the votes since 2000 (nearly 80% in the last election) Maybe some Russians don't want to sleep in the bed they made.

drdaeman 3y ago
> nearly 80% in the last election You forgot to put the quotes around the term "election". Elections in authoritarian states are just a mockery of the term. It was repeatedly mathematically proven that every recent election in Russia was rigged.
- scrps 3y ago
  So they didn't vote for him but they also don't revolt... With the russian military bogged down in Ukraine seems like the right time to throw one. Edit: Clarity
  - drdaeman 3y ago
    > but they also don't revolt There were numerous protests, and they all were suppressed. > With the russian military bogged down in Ukraine seems like the right time to throw one. An uprising is not a likely event in a highly atomized society where no one trusts anyone. And Russians were trained to distrust anyone but themselves and their immediate family for at least a century. Plus, there are plenty of siloviki working on internal affairs, protecting the regime. Witch hunts are all-high since '30s there.
    - scrps 3y ago
      These people were also brought up under the soviet system... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
      - drdaeman 3y ago
        Yes, they were. Ukrainians managed to recover from the Soviet legacy and do the right thing, and Russians failed miserably. Russian society is atomized and Ukrainian is apparently not. And there's probably no single reason why the history is the way it is. It's absolutely not like "Soviets were there and that's why it is the way it is". There's probably not even two or three or four reasons why - but some complex set of causes and effects that led the world to where it is today. Don't get me wrong, please. I'm not absolving the responsibility by blaming Soviets for Russian problems. I'm just mentioning one of the potential factors, saying that Soviets had contributed to this. Soviet legacy is probably way less important than Putin's years. Since USSR fell, Ukrainian people had elected 6 presidents, and Russia had something like two and a half, all hereditary preemniks to each other (and - again - that's not a particular reason why things are the way they are, just another indicator of how different two post-Soviet countries are). I guess, I should've been more concise and just said that in an atomized society, uprising is considered to be an unlikely event - without trying to delve into reasons why Russian society is atomized.
        scrps 3y ago
        Don't get me wrong, please. I'm not absolving the responsibility by blaming Soviets for Russian problems. I'm just mentioning one of the potential factors, saying that Soviets had contributed to this. Not a worry, I appreciate the nuance and I actually agree for the most part with your argument. Historical conditioning is 100% a burden and I agree that system has broken trust across the board in russian society but at some point a combination of living in a low trust/no trust society combined with a horrifying mutation of that system mixed with unrestricted capitalism has to have taken a toll even before being pariah'd and sanctioned to hell and back. I also know there are Russians that are against this and have put their lives on the line (and lost them) trying to expose putin for what he is and does, I just wish more would follow in their spirit and maybe we can, at least in one section of the world, have a little peace and quiet.
lionkor 3y ago
even 98% isnt everyone, and that still gives you no right to discriminate against those 1% (in my example, in reality way more) based on what the other 99% do.

by scrps 3y ago

Super weird then since putin has taken greater than 50% of the votes since 2000 (nearly 80% in the last election) Maybe some Russians don't want to sleep in the bed they made.

drdaeman 3y ago

> nearly 80% in the last election You forgot to put the quotes around the term "election". Elections in authoritarian states are just a mockery of the term. It was repeatedly mathematically proven that every recent election in Russia was rigged.

scrps 3y ago
So they didn't vote for him but they also don't revolt... With the russian military bogged down in Ukraine seems like the right time to throw one. Edit: Clarity
- drdaeman 3y ago
  > but they also don't revolt There were numerous protests, and they all were suppressed. > With the russian military bogged down in Ukraine seems like the right time to throw one. An uprising is not a likely event in a highly atomized society where no one trusts anyone. And Russians were trained to distrust anyone but themselves and their immediate family for at least a century. Plus, there are plenty of siloviki working on internal affairs, protecting the regime. Witch hunts are all-high since '30s there.
  - scrps 3y ago
    These people were also brought up under the soviet system... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
    - drdaeman 3y ago
      Yes, they were. Ukrainians managed to recover from the Soviet legacy and do the right thing, and Russians failed miserably. Russian society is atomized and Ukrainian is apparently not. And there's probably no single reason why the history is the way it is. It's absolutely not like "Soviets were there and that's why it is the way it is". There's probably not even two or three or four reasons why - but some complex set of causes and effects that led the world to where it is today. Don't get me wrong, please. I'm not absolving the responsibility by blaming Soviets for Russian problems. I'm just mentioning one of the potential factors, saying that Soviets had contributed to this. Soviet legacy is probably way less important than Putin's years. Since USSR fell, Ukrainian people had elected 6 presidents, and Russia had something like two and a half, all hereditary preemniks to each other (and - again - that's not a particular reason why things are the way they are, just another indicator of how different two post-Soviet countries are). I guess, I should've been more concise and just said that in an atomized society, uprising is considered to be an unlikely event - without trying to delve into reasons why Russian society is atomized.
      - scrps 3y ago
        Don't get me wrong, please. I'm not absolving the responsibility by blaming Soviets for Russian problems. I'm just mentioning one of the potential factors, saying that Soviets had contributed to this. Not a worry, I appreciate the nuance and I actually agree for the most part with your argument. Historical conditioning is 100% a burden and I agree that system has broken trust across the board in russian society but at some point a combination of living in a low trust/no trust society combined with a horrifying mutation of that system mixed with unrestricted capitalism has to have taken a toll even before being pariah'd and sanctioned to hell and back. I also know there are Russians that are against this and have put their lives on the line (and lost them) trying to expose putin for what he is and does, I just wish more would follow in their spirit and maybe we can, at least in one section of the world, have a little peace and quiet.

lionkor 3y ago

even 98% isnt everyone, and that still gives you no right to discriminate against those 1% (in my example, in reality way more) based on what the other 99% do.