4 ms·

https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/russians-are-split-over-benefits-military-action-ukraine https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opin

https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/russians-are-split-over-benefits-military-action-ukraine https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/rus... > At the same time, support for the Russian military action has neither increased nor decreased. Three in four Russians (76%) continue to say they support the military operation, with 43 percent expressing strong support and 33 percent somewhat supporting it. Apologies if I accidentally condemn the 24% of Russians who aren't neofascists (and yet, can't be bothered to protest, lest the state get upset).

orphea 3y ago
> and yet, can't be bothered to protest You go to prison for making anti-war statements in Russia, you know? https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/11/08/prosecution-requests-eight-year-sentence-for-sasha-skochilenko-st-petersburg-artist-who-replaced-price-tags-with-information-about-war-in-ukraine https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/11/08/prosecution-requests-ei... Eight. Fucking. Years. For some anti-war price tags. The same sentence you get if you plant drugs as a group of corrupted cops. https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/06/07/ex-police-officers-convicted-in-the-golunov-case-challenge-verdict https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/06/07/ex-police-officers-conv...
- justrealist 3y ago
  Yes, that is my point. Russian liberals are only anemically willing to be anti-war when that stance cannot personally hurt them, and certainly not opposed enough that they are willing to leave Russia. It may shock you to know that in some countries[1], dissidents have been willing to take personal risk of jail time to make their voice heard. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela
  - orphea 3y ago
    It may shock you to know that in some countries[1][2], dissidents have been willing to take personal risk of jail time to make their voice heard. Or being killed. [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Yashin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Yashin [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Nemtsov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Nemtsov
    - justrealist 3y ago
      [dead]
      - orbital-decay 3y ago
        I don't think the poster above paints anyone in any light, but of course everybody hears what they want to hear. >- Are they, as a majority people, engaging in inexcusable wars of conquest, with close to 0 professed empathy for what they are doing? Yes. That's nationalistic hogwash. You're forcefully drawing the group identity line by the nationality/citizenship. That's a perceived line which doesn't exist in reality.
        justrealist 3y ago
        Maybe that's not the line you want to matter, but if you talk to the actual human beings, they are going to self-identify as "Russian" not "Citizens of the Earth".
        fragmede 3y ago
        They're because whoever's asking likely comes from a country on Earth. If the being asking actual human beings was clearly not of this Earth, I think a great many people would choose to identify as being of Earth, as opposed to a specific place on it, or somewhere else.
        orbital-decay 3y ago
        Alright? With the start of the war, I and my twin brother, actual human beings, ended up on the different sides of the border, with different passports. We both been to Bolotnaya, Maidan, and many other places together. Both of us risked our lives, torture, and jail. But somehow one of us is not like the other to you, just because one has a fork and another a two-headed chicken on a piece of plastic.
  - ordu 3y ago
    [4] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Kara-Murza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Kara-Murza
- EB-Barrington 3y ago
  [dead]
LtWorf 3y ago
Did you protest for iraq? edit: I see from the downvotes that the ethical rules that apply to russian civilians do not apply to USA civilians, for some unknown reason.
- orbital-decay 3y ago
  I don't know the poster you're replying to, but the protests against the Iraq invasion were massive, both in the US and worldwide. [1] It happened regardless. (although admittedly the protesters weren't in any physical danger, and there was much less will to punish those who started the invasion afterwards, moreover the person directly responsible for it is currently a president). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
- justrealist 3y ago
  Invading Iraq was a mistake but I'm not going to let you try to morally equate the invasion of Ukraine and Iraq. One was an illconceived and halfassed attempt to remove an explicitly genocidal dictator, with the goal of replacing him with some fantasy liberal democracy. The other is an attempt to eliminate a democratically elected government, permanently annex territory, and culturally and linguistically subsume Ukraine into Russia by any means necessary. It's not the same.
  - LtWorf 3y ago
    Well it wasn't democratic enough to pass the EU standards before the war, although now everyone seems prone to doing exceptions.
lionkor 3y ago
Yes, accidentally discriminating a group of people based on something they have nothing to do with is a huge issue, and can lead to a lot of shit we should have learned from in history

orphea 3y ago

> and yet, can't be bothered to protest You go to prison for making anti-war statements in Russia, you know? https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/11/08/prosecution-requests-eight-year-sentence-for-sasha-skochilenko-st-petersburg-artist-who-replaced-price-tags-with-information-about-war-in-ukraine https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/11/08/prosecution-requests-ei... Eight. Fucking. Years. For some anti-war price tags. The same sentence you get if you plant drugs as a group of corrupted cops. https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/06/07/ex-police-officers-convicted-in-the-golunov-case-challenge-verdict https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/06/07/ex-police-officers-conv...

justrealist 3y ago
Yes, that is my point. Russian liberals are only anemically willing to be anti-war when that stance cannot personally hurt them, and certainly not opposed enough that they are willing to leave Russia. It may shock you to know that in some countries[1], dissidents have been willing to take personal risk of jail time to make their voice heard. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela
- orphea 3y ago
  It may shock you to know that in some countries[1][2], dissidents have been willing to take personal risk of jail time to make their voice heard. Or being killed. [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Yashin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Yashin [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Nemtsov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Nemtsov
  - justrealist 3y ago
    [dead]
    - orbital-decay 3y ago
      I don't think the poster above paints anyone in any light, but of course everybody hears what they want to hear. >- Are they, as a majority people, engaging in inexcusable wars of conquest, with close to 0 professed empathy for what they are doing? Yes. That's nationalistic hogwash. You're forcefully drawing the group identity line by the nationality/citizenship. That's a perceived line which doesn't exist in reality.
      - justrealist 3y ago
        Maybe that's not the line you want to matter, but if you talk to the actual human beings, they are going to self-identify as "Russian" not "Citizens of the Earth".
        fragmede 3y ago
        They're because whoever's asking likely comes from a country on Earth. If the being asking actual human beings was clearly not of this Earth, I think a great many people would choose to identify as being of Earth, as opposed to a specific place on it, or somewhere else.
        orbital-decay 3y ago
        Alright? With the start of the war, I and my twin brother, actual human beings, ended up on the different sides of the border, with different passports. We both been to Bolotnaya, Maidan, and many other places together. Both of us risked our lives, torture, and jail. But somehow one of us is not like the other to you, just because one has a fork and another a two-headed chicken on a piece of plastic.
- ordu 3y ago
  [4] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Kara-Murza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Kara-Murza
EB-Barrington 3y ago
[dead]

LtWorf 3y ago

Did you protest for iraq? edit: I see from the downvotes that the ethical rules that apply to russian civilians do not apply to USA civilians, for some unknown reason.

orbital-decay 3y ago
I don't know the poster you're replying to, but the protests against the Iraq invasion were massive, both in the US and worldwide. [1] It happened regardless. (although admittedly the protesters weren't in any physical danger, and there was much less will to punish those who started the invasion afterwards, moreover the person directly responsible for it is currently a president). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
justrealist 3y ago
Invading Iraq was a mistake but I'm not going to let you try to morally equate the invasion of Ukraine and Iraq. One was an illconceived and halfassed attempt to remove an explicitly genocidal dictator, with the goal of replacing him with some fantasy liberal democracy. The other is an attempt to eliminate a democratically elected government, permanently annex territory, and culturally and linguistically subsume Ukraine into Russia by any means necessary. It's not the same.
- LtWorf 3y ago
  Well it wasn't democratic enough to pass the EU standards before the war, although now everyone seems prone to doing exceptions.

lionkor 3y ago

Yes, accidentally discriminating a group of people based on something they have nothing to do with is a huge issue, and can lead to a lot of shit we should have learned from in history