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The french are very pro EU, maybe more so than the rest of the continent. The french pay attention to strategic things and that's why they project their will in

The french are very pro EU, maybe more so than the rest of the continent. The french pay attention to strategic things and that's why they project their will into the EU hoping the bigger demography will help keep fighting against the super powers. Yet they totally fail to realize that the rest of the continent doesn't always think like them. That some countries will never accept a majority vote, that some others just take the EU for it currently is: an economic free exchange zone with democratic requirement. Still today, for a french commoner, the solution the contradictions of EU, in social, economic or strategic matters is always more europe and be damn if you don't.

gumballindie 3y ago
> The french are very pro EU, Would seem like that’s not entirely accurate: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-05/france-s-le-pen-leads-in-presidential-election-first-round-poll?leadSource=uverify%20wall https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-05/france-s-... Le Pen is very much against the EU and she seems to be quite popular. > fighting against the super powers. France is basically non existent in the ukranian conflict.
- williamdclt 3y ago
  Of course not every French person is pro-EU, but the political actions of France have always been very pro-EU. And it’s almost certainly not her anti-EU position that gives Le Pen her popularity
- cccbbbaaa 3y ago
  Le Pen has toned down her anti-EU stance a lot since Phillipot left the RN. Leaving was no longer part of her program for 2022, for instance.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    That's her toning down to appear moderate, but she's still against the EU and a significant portion of her supporters are as well.
- southerntofu 3y ago
  Le Pen is not "quite popular". Except in the rich neighborhoods where she's from, it's hard to find anyone supporting her views. However, even in the poor neighborhoods where i'm from, it's more and more common to find disillusioned youths who'll happily announce they will vote Le Pen just to put an end to the current political system. I personally believe that view to be naive and concerns people who watch television, but still, that's not exactly what i'd call being "popular". Except for actual fascists from the big cities, i've yet to find a single person telling me they appreciate Le Pen's racist ideas or even just her person. To be fair, when i'd say it's naive to vote for Le Pen, i think it's naive to vote for any candidate except maybe for Melenchon who's still on the center of the political spectrum. Otherwise, whether it's Hollande (who was elected with "finance is our enemy" then named Macron the banker as minister) or Macron (who was only elected due to looking less worse than Le Pen but ends up having exactly the same racist/capitalist policies) there's really noone on the political spectrum to propose "progressive" policies and actual implement them. I guess that's something we french people have in common with the US which has a very similar political system and is just as a corrupt and genocidal.
chaostheory 3y ago
”The french are very pro EU” Isn't this because the EU designed to keep France strong, but keep Germany weak?
- toyg 3y ago
  If that was the design, it produced the opposite effect! Lol. But seriously, there is no grand design. The EU is the result of 60 years of compromises between larger and larger groups of countries which understand that, alone, they count for nothing in the age of continent-sized superpowers.
  - chaostheory 3y ago
    > If that was the design, it produced the opposite effect! Lol. But it’s been this way for the past decade now. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/german-economic-weakness-belies-frances-outperformance-2023-09-12/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/german-economic-weakn... https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/is-a-strong-france-and-a-weak-germany-the-eu-s-new-normal/ https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/is-a-strong-france-and-a... It’ll get even worse once Germany’s population collapses since their populace has largely rejected immigration to keep their working adult numbers up
    - toyg 3y ago
      Did you read those pieces? They say the factors pushing up the French economy are one-offs that will soon fan out, and Germany has massive fiscal resources still to be deployed. I don't have a dog in this fight, TBH I don't even think it's a fight - the two countries fundamentally need each other.
      - chaostheory 3y ago
        I don’t have anything to gain either from my position. The issue with the articles (I can find more from earlier years) is that they’ve been saying the same thing using a variety short term rationale for decades. imo The EU in general and even internally within Germany itself has fears of a resurgent Germany given its past, which makes sense https://carnegieeurope.eu/2014/03/14/foundations-of-german-power-pub-54955 https://carnegieeurope.eu/2014/03/14/foundations-of-german-p... I think I got the main idea from Peter Zeihan, but I can’t seem to find anything with Google. Need a better search engine

gumballindie 3y ago

> The french are very pro EU, Would seem like that’s not entirely accurate: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-05/france-s-le-pen-leads-in-presidential-election-first-round-poll?leadSource=uverify%20wall https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-05/france-s-... Le Pen is very much against the EU and she seems to be quite popular. > fighting against the super powers. France is basically non existent in the ukranian conflict.

williamdclt 3y ago
Of course not every French person is pro-EU, but the political actions of France have always been very pro-EU. And it’s almost certainly not her anti-EU position that gives Le Pen her popularity
cccbbbaaa 3y ago
Le Pen has toned down her anti-EU stance a lot since Phillipot left the RN. Leaving was no longer part of her program for 2022, for instance.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  That's her toning down to appear moderate, but she's still against the EU and a significant portion of her supporters are as well.
southerntofu 3y ago
Le Pen is not "quite popular". Except in the rich neighborhoods where she's from, it's hard to find anyone supporting her views. However, even in the poor neighborhoods where i'm from, it's more and more common to find disillusioned youths who'll happily announce they will vote Le Pen just to put an end to the current political system. I personally believe that view to be naive and concerns people who watch television, but still, that's not exactly what i'd call being "popular". Except for actual fascists from the big cities, i've yet to find a single person telling me they appreciate Le Pen's racist ideas or even just her person. To be fair, when i'd say it's naive to vote for Le Pen, i think it's naive to vote for any candidate except maybe for Melenchon who's still on the center of the political spectrum. Otherwise, whether it's Hollande (who was elected with "finance is our enemy" then named Macron the banker as minister) or Macron (who was only elected due to looking less worse than Le Pen but ends up having exactly the same racist/capitalist policies) there's really noone on the political spectrum to propose "progressive" policies and actual implement them. I guess that's something we french people have in common with the US which has a very similar political system and is just as a corrupt and genocidal.

chaostheory 3y ago

”The french are very pro EU” Isn't this because the EU designed to keep France strong, but keep Germany weak?

toyg 3y ago
If that was the design, it produced the opposite effect! Lol. But seriously, there is no grand design. The EU is the result of 60 years of compromises between larger and larger groups of countries which understand that, alone, they count for nothing in the age of continent-sized superpowers.
- chaostheory 3y ago
  > If that was the design, it produced the opposite effect! Lol. But it’s been this way for the past decade now. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/german-economic-weakness-belies-frances-outperformance-2023-09-12/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/german-economic-weakn... https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/is-a-strong-france-and-a-weak-germany-the-eu-s-new-normal/ https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/is-a-strong-france-and-a... It’ll get even worse once Germany’s population collapses since their populace has largely rejected immigration to keep their working adult numbers up
  - toyg 3y ago
    Did you read those pieces? They say the factors pushing up the French economy are one-offs that will soon fan out, and Germany has massive fiscal resources still to be deployed. I don't have a dog in this fight, TBH I don't even think it's a fight - the two countries fundamentally need each other.
    - chaostheory 3y ago
      I don’t have anything to gain either from my position. The issue with the articles (I can find more from earlier years) is that they’ve been saying the same thing using a variety short term rationale for decades. imo The EU in general and even internally within Germany itself has fears of a resurgent Germany given its past, which makes sense https://carnegieeurope.eu/2014/03/14/foundations-of-german-power-pub-54955 https://carnegieeurope.eu/2014/03/14/foundations-of-german-p... I think I got the main idea from Peter Zeihan, but I can’t seem to find anything with Google. Need a better search engine