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You can't measure productivity; only rough proxies for it. You'll get the proxy that you measure but often not the actual productivity that you were hoping for
by TheCoelacanth 3y ago
You can't measure productivity; only rough proxies for it.
You'll get the proxy that you measure but often not the actual productivity that you were hoping for.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoExactly - what would you measure for engineers? Lines of code, number of PRs, number of closed bugs, time to ship… everything can be gamed. For some of them you get tech debt, others just bring bloat that kind of looks like work but isn’t
- rileymat2 3y agoI guess I have not worked at organizational scale, but it is unclear why managers can't have their own secret metrics that are flags for qualitative review. Lines of code is a terrible public metric, but that does not mean you can't quietly monitor it, see outliers and then look at it qualitatively without ever mentioning the triggering metric is lines of code?
- fnordpiglet 3y agoManagers can and should watch whatever metrics they can collect passively, and they should absolutely talk to their teams and assess productivity. But it’s not an organizational metric that can be measured without crushing the life out of the team. An example is the folks that generate enormous lift by enabling others to produce better faster delivery in the code base. They work relentlessly but never change code. They’re the most valuable engineer you have, and are frankly in my experience what a 10x engineer must be. Are they unproductive? How do you measure their contribution? The only answer is by watching them work and understanding the team dynamic and just letting them do what magic they do. But this is actually hard work for managers and requires introspection and empathy most managers lack. Most managers are there to monitor widget production, promote people along the level guidance by the metrics, report status to their managers, and give delivery timelines based on all this. These managers strangle engineering by their attempts to measure. I call this the Heisenberg uncertainty principle of software engineering.
- convolvatron 3y agothis is not a problem if your managers are senior software people. they understand. the problem is this ridiculous notion that a software manager shouldn't know anything at all about software. how long do you think a construction foreman would last if they new nothing about construction.
- jpendry 3y agoA truly great HN comment. An example of why it’s still worthwhile to be here.
- rileymat2 3y agoI think I agree entirely with you. I am unclear why this is not the expectation. Using numerous measurable factors, that are a flag for holistic qualitative review.
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago"Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead." Individual managers can do that, but it doesn't scale to an organization. Someone is going to spill the beans on what metrics you're looking at. Managers generally are incentivized for their team to look good on whatever metrics the organization is watching, so they are going to push their team to work to the metric, possibly even to the point of telling what the secret metric is.
- bostik 3y agoOutcomes. And not for individual engineers, but whole teams.