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Good for Sweden! But OTOH, it's sad to see the international race to the bottom: Tesla will of course not build a factory in Sweden, where the union representat

by rob74 3y ago

Good for Sweden! But OTOH, it's sad to see the international race to the bottom: Tesla will of course not build a factory in Sweden, where the union representation rate is 88%, but in Germany, which theoretically has a very similar collective bargaining model, but where the rate has fallen to 54% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_agreement_coverage#By_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_agreement_coverage#...).

troupe 3y ago
Well it makes sense to NOT build a factory where the workers are prohibited from painting your cars. If the unions see this as a good thing then it is a win for everyone. Tesla build factories where people will work on their cars and Swedish unions don't have to turn down work that is available in their country.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > where the workers are prohibited from painting your cars It is not like this is a fact of life which is outside of tesla's control. All they need to do is agree on a collective agreement and their troubles go away. Their refusal to even negotiate is the source of their problem. "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do" When in Sweden....
  - scarab92 3y ago
    Manufacturers are leaving Sweden. They produce fewer cars now than they did 50 years ago. The range of negotiated outcomes that would be attractive to manufacturers would all involve pay cuts. There’s no point engaging in negotiations unless the union can first accept that.
  - troupe 3y ago
    It's not like it is a fact of life that is outside of the unions control either. If they wanted the work, they could let people work on Tesla vehicles. If they don't need the work, then there isn't any reason to do so. > "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do" When in Sweden.... But you can also choose where you want to go and that sounds like what Tesla is doing. They aren't forcing Swedish unions to do anything that Swedish unions don't want to do. And Swedish unions aren't making Telsa do something they don't want to do. Sounds like a win win for everyone.
- Gud 3y ago
  Sweden has a long history of high quality manufacturing, spawning world renowned companies like Volvo, Astra, SAAB, ABB(ASEA), Bahco, Nobel, etc, etc, etc. If Tesla doesn’t want to put up an assembly line in Sweden because their management is too stupid and greedy to see the advantage of a unionized workforce, it’s their loss.
  - scarab92 3y ago
    Unionised workforces are almost never a good thing from a productivity and flexibility perspective. You’ll never see modern manufacturing companies willingly become a union shop, it’s not in their best interest. The rare times it does happen, it’s always against the wishes of management.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Because management is obviously always right... Also, all German car manufavturers are unionized, every single one of them. Just to pick one example were it works out rather well with an unionized and collectively bargained workforce.
    - Gud 3y ago
      That’s strange, more or less all countries that are wealthy have a unionized workforce. And by wealthy countries, I don’t mean countries where a select few have all the money and power and the working man is struggling. I would absolutely prefer to live in a country where my fellow man work for a “non-productive” factory in Sweden, or any other advanced European economy, than in the US. And quite frankly, if management wants to exploit their workers, they can go fuck themselves.
      - scarab92 3y ago
        Actually most developed countries only have very small unionised workforces. The OECD average is 9% (rising to 17% if you include public sector). Moreover, union membership is rapidly falling. Every OECD country except Spain and Belgium are losing union members faster than they are being added. Unions don’t really make sense for employers, and typically don’t make sense for high skilled workers either. While I’m sure that many low skilled workers prefer them, it’s the companies and higher skilled workers who decide where businesses operate.
anon23432343 3y ago
And since all the chaos in the world more and more people are joining unions again in germany... The Tesla factory in germany has also big problems now... Google the german meet industry were people who prepare meat are sleeping in tents in the forest...
vages 3y ago
Tesla may go to Germany, but Scandinavia and the Nordic countries are still very good places to create factories. Highly skilled labor is easy to come by, and the top earners make less than their colleagues in the US. These are only a few of the many reasons why it’s very easy to get (filthy) rich in the Nordic countries: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU?si=6o3vs2Wu6eNM_h1h&t=738 https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU?si=6o3vs2Wu6eNM_h1h&t=738

by rob74 3y ago

troupe 3y ago

Well it makes sense to NOT build a factory where the workers are prohibited from painting your cars. If the unions see this as a good thing then it is a win for everyone. Tesla build factories where people will work on their cars and Swedish unions don't have to turn down work that is available in their country.

krisoft 3y ago
> where the workers are prohibited from painting your cars It is not like this is a fact of life which is outside of tesla's control. All they need to do is agree on a collective agreement and their troubles go away. Their refusal to even negotiate is the source of their problem. "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do" When in Sweden....
- scarab92 3y ago
  Manufacturers are leaving Sweden. They produce fewer cars now than they did 50 years ago. The range of negotiated outcomes that would be attractive to manufacturers would all involve pay cuts. There’s no point engaging in negotiations unless the union can first accept that.
- troupe 3y ago
  It's not like it is a fact of life that is outside of the unions control either. If they wanted the work, they could let people work on Tesla vehicles. If they don't need the work, then there isn't any reason to do so. > "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do" When in Sweden.... But you can also choose where you want to go and that sounds like what Tesla is doing. They aren't forcing Swedish unions to do anything that Swedish unions don't want to do. And Swedish unions aren't making Telsa do something they don't want to do. Sounds like a win win for everyone.
Gud 3y ago
Sweden has a long history of high quality manufacturing, spawning world renowned companies like Volvo, Astra, SAAB, ABB(ASEA), Bahco, Nobel, etc, etc, etc. If Tesla doesn’t want to put up an assembly line in Sweden because their management is too stupid and greedy to see the advantage of a unionized workforce, it’s their loss.
- scarab92 3y ago
  Unionised workforces are almost never a good thing from a productivity and flexibility perspective. You’ll never see modern manufacturing companies willingly become a union shop, it’s not in their best interest. The rare times it does happen, it’s always against the wishes of management.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Because management is obviously always right... Also, all German car manufavturers are unionized, every single one of them. Just to pick one example were it works out rather well with an unionized and collectively bargained workforce.
  - Gud 3y ago
    That’s strange, more or less all countries that are wealthy have a unionized workforce. And by wealthy countries, I don’t mean countries where a select few have all the money and power and the working man is struggling. I would absolutely prefer to live in a country where my fellow man work for a “non-productive” factory in Sweden, or any other advanced European economy, than in the US. And quite frankly, if management wants to exploit their workers, they can go fuck themselves.
    - scarab92 3y ago
      Actually most developed countries only have very small unionised workforces. The OECD average is 9% (rising to 17% if you include public sector). Moreover, union membership is rapidly falling. Every OECD country except Spain and Belgium are losing union members faster than they are being added. Unions don’t really make sense for employers, and typically don’t make sense for high skilled workers either. While I’m sure that many low skilled workers prefer them, it’s the companies and higher skilled workers who decide where businesses operate.

anon23432343 3y ago

And since all the chaos in the world more and more people are joining unions again in germany... The Tesla factory in germany has also big problems now... Google the german meet industry were people who prepare meat are sleeping in tents in the forest...

vages 3y ago

Tesla may go to Germany, but Scandinavia and the Nordic countries are still very good places to create factories. Highly skilled labor is easy to come by, and the top earners make less than their colleagues in the US. These are only a few of the many reasons why it’s very easy to get (filthy) rich in the Nordic countries: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU?si=6o3vs2Wu6eNM_h1h&t=738 https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU?si=6o3vs2Wu6eNM_h1h&t=738