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Isn't this exactly what BlackBerry used to do? Privacy wise it's distasteful but it does work around a lot of IMAP's problems which still don't seem to have be

by yrro 3y ago

Isn't this exactly what BlackBerry used to do? Privacy wise it's distasteful but it does work around a lot of IMAP's problems which still don't seem to have been fixed in the ~20 years that they've been known about...

AshamedCaptain 3y ago
There are no such IMAP problems, at least ever since IDLE was a thing (which arguably you could argue may have not been a thing up until the 2010s, even if it's technically from the 2000s). It's just all political bullshit -- the same reason you can have decent IMAP clients on Android, but you can't on iOS (they have to resort to tricks like this), except if you're Apple.
- yrro 3y ago
  Isn't there still a limit of one watched mailbox per TCP connection?
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    Yes. But you're going to have a unique TCP connection per host, at minimum. Unless I'm misunderstanding the problem you're raising, it seems like a non-issue for the majority of people with multiple accounts (a work email, a Gmail, a hotmail; for instance).
    - yrro 3y ago
      A unique connection per host isn't too bad. But I have 12 connections for each of my desktops and laptops and phones and tablets... As you say the problem is somewhat caused by Apple ~~and Google~~ forcing apps to use their proprietary notification systems so that e.g., mail can be checked while a phone is idling. But the end user does not care about the market abusing power of the monopolies--they wants instant notifications when they receive mail...
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
        Google is _not_ forcing, only Apple is. This cannot be emphasized enough. You can still perfectly have dozens of background TCP connections idling on Android with no issue. The only caution you need to take is to synchronize the keepalives (otherwise the radio may take stay on for too long, hitting your battery life), but this was solved back when Android was still Danger. As evidenced by the power analysis of IM apps that was here on HN a couple weeks ago, there is no discernible advantage to using Google notifications versus just keeping your multiple TCP connections idling in the background: Conversations is a Jabber client which does the second and was practically the most power-friendly client of the entire Android ecosystem.
        yrro 3y ago
        Oh that's good to know, thanks :)
      - deaddodo 3y ago
        > A unique connection per host isn't too bad. But I have 12 connections for each of my desktops and laptops and phones and tablets... It's host<->host unique. So, assuming your email server allows enough keepalives, you're fine with multiple devices. Where you might have an issue is if you have multiple accounts on the same server (not even the same service, necessarily; Gmail, hotmail, etc have a plethora of servers) and connect to them via the same device.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

by yrro 3y ago

AshamedCaptain 3y ago

There are no such IMAP problems, at least ever since IDLE was a thing (which arguably you could argue may have not been a thing up until the 2010s, even if it's technically from the 2000s). It's just all political bullshit -- the same reason you can have decent IMAP clients on Android, but you can't on iOS (they have to resort to tricks like this), except if you're Apple.

yrro 3y ago
Isn't there still a limit of one watched mailbox per TCP connection?
- deaddodo 3y ago
  Yes. But you're going to have a unique TCP connection per host, at minimum. Unless I'm misunderstanding the problem you're raising, it seems like a non-issue for the majority of people with multiple accounts (a work email, a Gmail, a hotmail; for instance).
  - yrro 3y ago
    A unique connection per host isn't too bad. But I have 12 connections for each of my desktops and laptops and phones and tablets... As you say the problem is somewhat caused by Apple ~~and Google~~ forcing apps to use their proprietary notification systems so that e.g., mail can be checked while a phone is idling. But the end user does not care about the market abusing power of the monopolies--they wants instant notifications when they receive mail...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
      Google is _not_ forcing, only Apple is. This cannot be emphasized enough. You can still perfectly have dozens of background TCP connections idling on Android with no issue. The only caution you need to take is to synchronize the keepalives (otherwise the radio may take stay on for too long, hitting your battery life), but this was solved back when Android was still Danger. As evidenced by the power analysis of IM apps that was here on HN a couple weeks ago, there is no discernible advantage to using Google notifications versus just keeping your multiple TCP connections idling in the background: Conversations is a Jabber client which does the second and was practically the most power-friendly client of the entire Android ecosystem.
      - yrro 3y ago
        Oh that's good to know, thanks :)
    - deaddodo 3y ago
      > A unique connection per host isn't too bad. But I have 12 connections for each of my desktops and laptops and phones and tablets... It's host<->host unique. So, assuming your email server allows enough keepalives, you're fine with multiple devices. Where you might have an issue is if you have multiple accounts on the same server (not even the same service, necessarily; Gmail, hotmail, etc have a plethora of servers) and connect to them via the same device.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]