2 ms·

(1) you initially seemed like the above-mentioned "contemporary authors", and I wanted to push back on the (suspected) inverse misconception. (2) the very idea

(1) you initially seemed like the above-mentioned "contemporary authors", and I wanted to push back on the (suspected) inverse misconception. (2) the very idea of ipn is a wrong framing. The proper name for non-consensual sex is rape, no matter the time, culture, legal framework or absence thereof. No further points, this is going nowhere. We are in agreement.

gattilorenz 3y ago
Ok, now I see how we got here :) To nitpick, I am like the current authors (by "contemporary" I meant "medieval", btw): it was not a codified right, and that's really the crux of the issue. If you want to point out that the concept is morally wrong, I think everyone in the world agrees it is, but it's not a very helpful point when talking about the legality and existence of a practice in its historical context. If we change the name to "legalized rape" maybe it's easier to see this: my first post reads like "legalized rape was never a widespread and accepted custom". We can talk about the futility of the word "legalized" if we're considering the morality of it (in that legal rape is still rape, and wrong and abhorrent), but in the context of historical practice this is... irrelevant? Rape still existed, unfortunately, and it was likely not always pursued/punished (and even worse, not necessarily for the lack of an indipendent judge: sometimes rape was "fixed" by marrying the girl, which was... a thing until the last century in Italy, and I imagine there were even cases where the raped girl was also disowned by the legitimate husband)
- simbolit 3y ago
  > legalized rape was never a widespread and accepted custom Now, - having abandoned the ipn concept - you are getting too broad with your claims. very few legal systems allowed for the prosecution of rape within marriage before the 1970s - legalized rape was a common thing. But I have to do some work now, so I likely won't answer any further. Have a nice day (if you are in Italy) or a good night (if you are on the other side of the globe).
  - gattilorenz 3y ago
    Nothing of this has much to do with misconceptions about medieval feudal rights, so it feels we’re not really talking about the same thing, or that we’re not actually trying to understand each other. I’m only, exclusively referring to the non existence of a feudal right to have sex with the wives of other people. You seem to agree that this was not a thing, anything else is a conversation topic you introduced, giving (or having) the impression I was reflecting on that, or implying anything about it. I wasn’t, as your topics had nothing to do with widespread misconceptions about the dark ages. Have a good day you too.
deleted 3y ago
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gattilorenz 3y ago

Ok, now I see how we got here :) To nitpick, I am like the current authors (by "contemporary" I meant "medieval", btw): it was not a codified right, and that's really the crux of the issue. If you want to point out that the concept is morally wrong, I think everyone in the world agrees it is, but it's not a very helpful point when talking about the legality and existence of a practice in its historical context. If we change the name to "legalized rape" maybe it's easier to see this: my first post reads like "legalized rape was never a widespread and accepted custom". We can talk about the futility of the word "legalized" if we're considering the morality of it (in that legal rape is still rape, and wrong and abhorrent), but in the context of historical practice this is... irrelevant? Rape still existed, unfortunately, and it was likely not always pursued/punished (and even worse, not necessarily for the lack of an indipendent judge: sometimes rape was "fixed" by marrying the girl, which was... a thing until the last century in Italy, and I imagine there were even cases where the raped girl was also disowned by the legitimate husband)

simbolit 3y ago
> legalized rape was never a widespread and accepted custom Now, - having abandoned the ipn concept - you are getting too broad with your claims. very few legal systems allowed for the prosecution of rape within marriage before the 1970s - legalized rape was a common thing. But I have to do some work now, so I likely won't answer any further. Have a nice day (if you are in Italy) or a good night (if you are on the other side of the globe).
- gattilorenz 3y ago
  Nothing of this has much to do with misconceptions about medieval feudal rights, so it feels we’re not really talking about the same thing, or that we’re not actually trying to understand each other. I’m only, exclusively referring to the non existence of a feudal right to have sex with the wives of other people. You seem to agree that this was not a thing, anything else is a conversation topic you introduced, giving (or having) the impression I was reflecting on that, or implying anything about it. I wasn’t, as your topics had nothing to do with widespread misconceptions about the dark ages. Have a good day you too.

deleted 3y ago

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