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It seems like the American economy is only "growing" because Americans are constantly reselling houses to each other for ever-increasing prices, rather than pro

It seems like the American economy is only "growing" because Americans are constantly reselling houses to each other for ever-increasing prices, rather than producing any actual useful stuff.

chiefalchemist 3y ago
Or it's growing from solving for symptoms, not root problems. Brief examples: Divorce? That's not a fractured family, it's an extra household of goods (e.g., TVs, sofa, outfitted kitchen, etc.). It increases demand for housing, which drives up those prices. End up with more stuff than you need? Put it in storage. Weight control / obesity? Aside from the gym, there's fad diet books, meds, meds, and more meds, etc. As you add weight, you naturally need new clothes. No free time? The solution is fast food or shite frozen meals, etc. Not to worry, the "Healthcare" Industrial Complex welcomes this "solution". To your point, the system favors revenue over efficiency. Profits over prevention.
- smitty1e 3y ago
  > To your point, the system favors revenue over efficiency. Profits over prevention. We live in the present tense, not the future. Hence the primacy of the tactical over the strategic.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    So we? Or does believing in the paradigm confine us in a more profitable way? Imagine if we saw 2x as many prevention ads as we see "now now now" ads, would our mindset not change?
    - smitty1e 3y ago
      The more we can peek out into the future and think strategically, the more liberated we are. > Imagine if we saw 2x as many prevention ads Many business models are predicated upon the "now now now", instant gratification mentality. I'm as capitalist as they come, but that doesn't mean all should be for sale.
- gruez 3y ago
  >Divorce? That's not a fractured family, it's an extra household of goods Said no one ever. Also, are we just going to ignore the entire industry trying to fix marriages? eg. marriage counselors, self help books. Sure, they might be of questionable usefulness, but solving relationship problems is hard. I'd hardly characterize it as "solving for symptoms, not root problems". The same applies for your other examples. For obesity: turns out getting people to voluntarily eat less is hard, so we have an entire industry devoted to losing weight without the suffering. We might actually have finally solved it with GLP agonists. If it worked and made people lean, is it really "solving for symptoms, not root problems"? In the end you still lost weight. Who cares if you needed to use willpower or not?
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    >Also, are we just going to ignore the entire industry trying to fix marriages? eg. marriage counselors, self help books. Sure, they might be of questionable usefulness, but solving relationship problems is hard. I'd hardly characterize it as "solving for symptoms, not root problems". What about all the lawyers that get to charge huge rates for providing services in these cases? Is that really "productive"? In the grand scheme of things, I don't think so. It shows up as GDP, but it's really a tax (or leach) on society, sort of like tax-prep services and healthcare insurers. In a way, I think OP might be right: the root problem isn't being solved. The root problem, however, is a source of huge disagreement I'm sure. Personally, I think one of the roots is people getting into bad relationships in the first place. They could avoid most of this trouble and expense by simply not getting married to Mr./Ms. Wrong. Society pushing people to get married is part of the problem here, though the other part is now society actually allows people to get divorced, instead of pressuring (or forcing) them to stay together miserably, even with abusive and/or violent partners. Of course, this is changing: people really are getting married less, which the divorce lawyers probably aren't happy about. The other root problem, IMO, is that I think marriage as a social model has probably largely outlived its usefulness, and society needs to come up with some other model for relationships. But I'm probably 20-100 years ahead of my time with this thinking.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Fact: divorce is good for the economy. Full stop. And you're correct. "Said no one ever." *That* is exactly my point. Thanks. Read my last line / paragraph and work backwards from there, please. Normalize something, making it ubiquitous (to the point it's oblivious) doesn't make it right.
gruez 3y ago
Forget about what it "seems". What does the data actually say? I suspect it won't support your theory, and will say something along the lines of tech/services being the main drivers of growth.
- junofan 3y ago
  Imputed rents by homeowners are factored into services I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Rent in North Dakota averages $821/month, GDP per capita is 94k. Rent in UK averages 880$/month, GDP per capita is 46k. There’s nuances to these numbers, but the US economy is really strong in many ways.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      But...free NHS healthcare? /s but maybe not really
      - Retric 3y ago
        Healthcare is one of the best arguments for PPP adjustments to GDP. The value of healthcare is defined in terms of results not how much is charged for those services.
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >The value of healthcare is defined in terms of results not how much is charged for those services. But how do you measure "healthcare results" then? Infant mortality? Life expectancy? Waiting times? Percentage of population who gets some sort of services regardless of quality? The quality of those services even though not everyone can get them?
        3y ago

It seems like the American economy is only "growing" because Americans are constantly reselling houses to each other for ever-increasing prices, rather than producing any actual useful stuff.

chiefalchemist 3y ago

Or it's growing from solving for symptoms, not root problems. Brief examples: Divorce? That's not a fractured family, it's an extra household of goods (e.g., TVs, sofa, outfitted kitchen, etc.). It increases demand for housing, which drives up those prices. End up with more stuff than you need? Put it in storage. Weight control / obesity? Aside from the gym, there's fad diet books, meds, meds, and more meds, etc. As you add weight, you naturally need new clothes. No free time? The solution is fast food or shite frozen meals, etc. Not to worry, the "Healthcare" Industrial Complex welcomes this "solution". To your point, the system favors revenue over efficiency. Profits over prevention.

smitty1e 3y ago
> To your point, the system favors revenue over efficiency. Profits over prevention. We live in the present tense, not the future. Hence the primacy of the tactical over the strategic.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  So we? Or does believing in the paradigm confine us in a more profitable way? Imagine if we saw 2x as many prevention ads as we see "now now now" ads, would our mindset not change?
  - smitty1e 3y ago
    The more we can peek out into the future and think strategically, the more liberated we are. > Imagine if we saw 2x as many prevention ads Many business models are predicated upon the "now now now", instant gratification mentality. I'm as capitalist as they come, but that doesn't mean all should be for sale.
gruez 3y ago
>Divorce? That's not a fractured family, it's an extra household of goods Said no one ever. Also, are we just going to ignore the entire industry trying to fix marriages? eg. marriage counselors, self help books. Sure, they might be of questionable usefulness, but solving relationship problems is hard. I'd hardly characterize it as "solving for symptoms, not root problems". The same applies for your other examples. For obesity: turns out getting people to voluntarily eat less is hard, so we have an entire industry devoted to losing weight without the suffering. We might actually have finally solved it with GLP agonists. If it worked and made people lean, is it really "solving for symptoms, not root problems"? In the end you still lost weight. Who cares if you needed to use willpower or not?
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  >Also, are we just going to ignore the entire industry trying to fix marriages? eg. marriage counselors, self help books. Sure, they might be of questionable usefulness, but solving relationship problems is hard. I'd hardly characterize it as "solving for symptoms, not root problems". What about all the lawyers that get to charge huge rates for providing services in these cases? Is that really "productive"? In the grand scheme of things, I don't think so. It shows up as GDP, but it's really a tax (or leach) on society, sort of like tax-prep services and healthcare insurers. In a way, I think OP might be right: the root problem isn't being solved. The root problem, however, is a source of huge disagreement I'm sure. Personally, I think one of the roots is people getting into bad relationships in the first place. They could avoid most of this trouble and expense by simply not getting married to Mr./Ms. Wrong. Society pushing people to get married is part of the problem here, though the other part is now society actually allows people to get divorced, instead of pressuring (or forcing) them to stay together miserably, even with abusive and/or violent partners. Of course, this is changing: people really are getting married less, which the divorce lawyers probably aren't happy about. The other root problem, IMO, is that I think marriage as a social model has probably largely outlived its usefulness, and society needs to come up with some other model for relationships. But I'm probably 20-100 years ahead of my time with this thinking.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Fact: divorce is good for the economy. Full stop. And you're correct. "Said no one ever." *That* is exactly my point. Thanks. Read my last line / paragraph and work backwards from there, please. Normalize something, making it ubiquitous (to the point it's oblivious) doesn't make it right.

gruez 3y ago

Forget about what it "seems". What does the data actually say? I suspect it won't support your theory, and will say something along the lines of tech/services being the main drivers of growth.

junofan 3y ago
Imputed rents by homeowners are factored into services I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong.
- Retric 3y ago
  Rent in North Dakota averages $821/month, GDP per capita is 94k. Rent in UK averages 880$/month, GDP per capita is 46k. There’s nuances to these numbers, but the US economy is really strong in many ways.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    But...free NHS healthcare? /s but maybe not really
    - Retric 3y ago
      Healthcare is one of the best arguments for PPP adjustments to GDP. The value of healthcare is defined in terms of results not how much is charged for those services.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >The value of healthcare is defined in terms of results not how much is charged for those services. But how do you measure "healthcare results" then? Infant mortality? Life expectancy? Waiting times? Percentage of population who gets some sort of services regardless of quality? The quality of those services even though not everyone can get them?
        3y ago