3 ms·

There is some irony in Einstein blaming people killing each others because of the stupidity of the masses vs the wiseness of intellectuals. The largest genocide

by cm2187 3y ago

There is some irony in Einstein blaming people killing each others because of the stupidity of the masses vs the wiseness of intellectuals. The largest genocides of that period have been orchestrated by communist countries, supported by a lot if not most of of the intelligentsia, including I believe Einstein himself.

adriancr 3y ago
"intelligentsia" is not intelectuals, it just means secret police . I doubt Einstein was a member of the KGB or would even entertain that thought. Intellectuals were also murdered first / sent to hard labour to die, sent to political prisons, etc. (check out what Mao did or Stalin, khmer rouge, or any other communist regime) They were replaced by random poeople off the street based on their perceived loyalty to communism. In occupied countries russia basically put in russians at first to clean up everything / murder anyone they want. So you are wrong here.
- azangru 3y ago
  > "intelligentsia" is not intelectuals, it just means secret police . There are dictionaries online, you know? You could even type "define intelligentsia" into the Google search box, and get a decent answer.
  - adriancr 3y ago
    He made a bold statement: > The largest genocides of that period have been orchestrated by communist countries, supported by a lot if not most of of the intelligentsia First part is that Intelligentsia means intellectuals, which in russia after 1917 it did not. Google has issues with doublethink but you can find on wikiedia what they did to intellectuals and what they redefined the term to. It also does not cove the fact that it is equivalent to intelligence services but not the same. Second part is that Intelligentsia made genocides, which is ambigous, which intelligentsia? (the KGB?, if so, yes but they were not intellectuals, or the intellectuals?, if so, how?, they were all dead or not in power) Third part is that Einstein belonged to that which is even bolder illogical statement... He was not russian, not a part of the KGB, had no power or involvement.
    - azangru 3y ago
      > You have made a bold statement Not me, sorry :-)
      - adriancr 3y ago
        Oh, sorry, corrected :)
        cm2187 3y ago
        It was me, and on the topic of english, I think you may confuse "perpetrated" and "supported". I am not arguing that Einstein perpetrated a genocide and I think even some automatic translation wouldn't distord my sentence that badly.
        adriancr 3y ago
        Allright, my comments still stand. Your statement is still as outrageous and wrong even with those two words replaced and my comments still stand the same. How did Einstein "support" those genocides? Define the "Intelligentsia" that supported those genocides? How did "Intelligentsia" support those genocides?
- kromem 3y ago
  Perhaps there was a shortage of 'wiseness.'
- melagonster 3y ago
  sorry, the history of communism in China directly supported by intelectuals. the first member of CCP is famous writer.
  - adriancr 3y ago
    Sure, some might have been stupid to support communism. (as some are still today) What happened to them afterwards? That should be a cautionary tale.
ychompinator 3y ago
[dead]
spacecadet 3y ago
Supported? funny way to put that. Isn't intelligentsia somewhat of a self appointed label? Wealth isn't much intelligence, or intellectualism, its depravity if you ask me.
bojan 3y ago
What a horrible comment, if by "intelligentsia" you mean smart and/or educated people who contribute to the community. Those were the first to either be killed or exiled by such regimes.
- cm2187 3y ago
  That's true. And cheered by western intellectuals. Mao was probably the worst offender in that respect. Who were Maoist sympathisers in the US and western europe? Not factory workers and peasants.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Who were Maoist sympathisers in the US and western europe? Not factory workers and peasants. Very few Western elites were pro-Mao. And general support for communism definitely had a class bias. (Any populism does, for very sympathetic and not-stupid reasons.)
    - laurent_du 3y ago
      Maoism was very trendy among western elites, at some point in the 60s and 70s. It was certainly the case in France, for example.
      - Kranar 3y ago
        Certainly in France there were a group of intellectual elites who supported Mao, especially since Mao's Cultural Revolution was directly inspired by France's own Paris Commune as well as the fact that many CCP leaders were educated in France. But to generalize this to say that most of Europe's elite supported Mao, or even that American elites supported Mao, is simply unsupported.
  - Kranar 3y ago
    Yes actually, they were factory workers and often times minorities. In the U.S. some of the biggest supporters of Maoism were actually the Black Panthers. https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-1/maoism-us.htm https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-1/maoism-us.htm
iamflimflam1 3y ago
There is a large class of people who believe they are intelligent. But sadly all they have is complete confidence in their views backed up by some pseudo intellectual nonsense that they’ve either read/watched/heard without much understanding.
- cm2187 3y ago
  Or a better ability to rationalise some impossible position. That being said I can't help thinking that there is a certain callousness, that the ideal is so great that it's worth breaking a few eggs, a lot of eggs if necessary. That certainly was the mentality of those who perpetrated the crimes. Lenin, Stalin and Mao were certainly thugs, but I think they were first and foremost true communist ideologists. I think western intellectuels deliberately ignored the crimes in the name of ideology.
TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
> The largest genocides of that period have been orchestrated by communist countries, supported by a lot if not most of of the intelligentsia Well, the segment of the intelligentsia that doesn’t support the regime are generally executed or sent to labor camps to die. So yes, eventually “supported by a lot if not most of of the intelligentsia”.
- cm2187 3y ago
  Not university professors in western europe or the US.
mcv 3y ago
You single out communist countries, but fascist and capitalist countries have committed more than their fair share of genocides. The real problem driving genocide is a feeling of superiority of one group over another, whether it's a single leader or a particular ethnic group. In that sense it's sad to see Einstein talk down about the character of the masses vs the character of the few who provide value. That's the stuff Elon Musk would love.
- vixen99 3y ago
  > The real problem driving genocide is a feeling of superiority of one group over another. Real? Where's the overall evidence for that? The capitalist system is inarguably superior to a command economy in terms of supplying what customers want. Does this therefore drive some urge towards genocide on the part of one or the other side? 'It was very much an American invention (the first supermarket in the world was opened in New York’s Queens borough in 1930 – The King Kullen supermarket, invention of former grocery clerk Michael Cullen). By the late 50s, what the women (and surely, even if unacknowledged by the New York Times, men) of Zagreb saw was a clear signal of capitalist superiority in something that mattered much more to them than the conquering of space or new ways to facilitate human extinction: Cheap and plentiful food.'. https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/cold-war-supermarket-yugoslavia/ https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/cold-war-supermarket-yugosl...
  - mcv 3y ago
    > The capitalist system is inarguably superior to a command economy in terms of supplying what customers want. Does this therefore drive some urge towards genocide on the part of one or the other side? When it sees them as resources to be exploited or wasted, as competitors holding resources you want, or as unproductive. Colonialism is probably the biggest driver of genocide in history. Look at the millions dead in Congo to urge them to produce more rubber. Look at the Native American genocide in the US to take their land.
    - BirAdam 3y ago
      AFAIK, the majority of genocides are in the form of ethnic cleansing and not from colonization or conquest.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by cm2187 3y ago

adriancr 3y ago

"intelligentsia" is not intelectuals, it just means secret police . I doubt Einstein was a member of the KGB or would even entertain that thought. Intellectuals were also murdered first / sent to hard labour to die, sent to political prisons, etc. (check out what Mao did or Stalin, khmer rouge, or any other communist regime) They were replaced by random poeople off the street based on their perceived loyalty to communism. In occupied countries russia basically put in russians at first to clean up everything / murder anyone they want. So you are wrong here.

azangru 3y ago
> "intelligentsia" is not intelectuals, it just means secret police . There are dictionaries online, you know? You could even type "define intelligentsia" into the Google search box, and get a decent answer.
- adriancr 3y ago
  He made a bold statement: > The largest genocides of that period have been orchestrated by communist countries, supported by a lot if not most of of the intelligentsia First part is that Intelligentsia means intellectuals, which in russia after 1917 it did not. Google has issues with doublethink but you can find on wikiedia what they did to intellectuals and what they redefined the term to. It also does not cove the fact that it is equivalent to intelligence services but not the same. Second part is that Intelligentsia made genocides, which is ambigous, which intelligentsia? (the KGB?, if so, yes but they were not intellectuals, or the intellectuals?, if so, how?, they were all dead or not in power) Third part is that Einstein belonged to that which is even bolder illogical statement... He was not russian, not a part of the KGB, had no power or involvement.
  - azangru 3y ago
    > You have made a bold statement Not me, sorry :-)
    - adriancr 3y ago
      Oh, sorry, corrected :)
      - cm2187 3y ago
        It was me, and on the topic of english, I think you may confuse "perpetrated" and "supported". I am not arguing that Einstein perpetrated a genocide and I think even some automatic translation wouldn't distord my sentence that badly.
        adriancr 3y ago
        Allright, my comments still stand. Your statement is still as outrageous and wrong even with those two words replaced and my comments still stand the same. How did Einstein "support" those genocides? Define the "Intelligentsia" that supported those genocides? How did "Intelligentsia" support those genocides?
kromem 3y ago
Perhaps there was a shortage of 'wiseness.'
melagonster 3y ago
sorry, the history of communism in China directly supported by intelectuals. the first member of CCP is famous writer.
- adriancr 3y ago
  Sure, some might have been stupid to support communism. (as some are still today) What happened to them afterwards? That should be a cautionary tale.

ychompinator 3y ago

[dead]

spacecadet 3y ago

Supported? funny way to put that. Isn't intelligentsia somewhat of a self appointed label? Wealth isn't much intelligence, or intellectualism, its depravity if you ask me.

bojan 3y ago

What a horrible comment, if by "intelligentsia" you mean smart and/or educated people who contribute to the community. Those were the first to either be killed or exiled by such regimes.

cm2187 3y ago
That's true. And cheered by western intellectuals. Mao was probably the worst offender in that respect. Who were Maoist sympathisers in the US and western europe? Not factory workers and peasants.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Who were Maoist sympathisers in the US and western europe? Not factory workers and peasants. Very few Western elites were pro-Mao. And general support for communism definitely had a class bias. (Any populism does, for very sympathetic and not-stupid reasons.)
  - laurent_du 3y ago
    Maoism was very trendy among western elites, at some point in the 60s and 70s. It was certainly the case in France, for example.
    - Kranar 3y ago
      Certainly in France there were a group of intellectual elites who supported Mao, especially since Mao's Cultural Revolution was directly inspired by France's own Paris Commune as well as the fact that many CCP leaders were educated in France. But to generalize this to say that most of Europe's elite supported Mao, or even that American elites supported Mao, is simply unsupported.
- Kranar 3y ago
  Yes actually, they were factory workers and often times minorities. In the U.S. some of the biggest supporters of Maoism were actually the Black Panthers. https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-1/maoism-us.htm https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-1/maoism-us.htm

iamflimflam1 3y ago

There is a large class of people who believe they are intelligent. But sadly all they have is complete confidence in their views backed up by some pseudo intellectual nonsense that they’ve either read/watched/heard without much understanding.

cm2187 3y ago
Or a better ability to rationalise some impossible position. That being said I can't help thinking that there is a certain callousness, that the ideal is so great that it's worth breaking a few eggs, a lot of eggs if necessary. That certainly was the mentality of those who perpetrated the crimes. Lenin, Stalin and Mao were certainly thugs, but I think they were first and foremost true communist ideologists. I think western intellectuels deliberately ignored the crimes in the name of ideology.

TerrifiedMouse 3y ago

> The largest genocides of that period have been orchestrated by communist countries, supported by a lot if not most of of the intelligentsia Well, the segment of the intelligentsia that doesn’t support the regime are generally executed or sent to labor camps to die. So yes, eventually “supported by a lot if not most of of the intelligentsia”.

cm2187 3y ago
Not university professors in western europe or the US.

mcv 3y ago

You single out communist countries, but fascist and capitalist countries have committed more than their fair share of genocides. The real problem driving genocide is a feeling of superiority of one group over another, whether it's a single leader or a particular ethnic group. In that sense it's sad to see Einstein talk down about the character of the masses vs the character of the few who provide value. That's the stuff Elon Musk would love.

vixen99 3y ago
> The real problem driving genocide is a feeling of superiority of one group over another. Real? Where's the overall evidence for that? The capitalist system is inarguably superior to a command economy in terms of supplying what customers want. Does this therefore drive some urge towards genocide on the part of one or the other side? 'It was very much an American invention (the first supermarket in the world was opened in New York’s Queens borough in 1930 – The King Kullen supermarket, invention of former grocery clerk Michael Cullen). By the late 50s, what the women (and surely, even if unacknowledged by the New York Times, men) of Zagreb saw was a clear signal of capitalist superiority in something that mattered much more to them than the conquering of space or new ways to facilitate human extinction: Cheap and plentiful food.'. https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/cold-war-supermarket-yugoslavia/ https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/cold-war-supermarket-yugosl...
- mcv 3y ago
  > The capitalist system is inarguably superior to a command economy in terms of supplying what customers want. Does this therefore drive some urge towards genocide on the part of one or the other side? When it sees them as resources to be exploited or wasted, as competitors holding resources you want, or as unproductive. Colonialism is probably the biggest driver of genocide in history. Look at the millions dead in Congo to urge them to produce more rubber. Look at the Native American genocide in the US to take their land.
  - BirAdam 3y ago
    AFAIK, the majority of genocides are in the form of ethnic cleansing and not from colonization or conquest.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]