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In living memory of most of us, China was just a deeply impoverished nation known for little more than exporting cheap unreliable crap. Any achievement they did

In living memory of most of us, China was just a deeply impoverished nation known for little more than exporting cheap unreliable crap. Any achievement they did make was framed as being stolen from somebody else. Yet now, their successes in space, industry, science, and technology are completely taken for granted. Funny how quickly things change! The status quo of the world is constantly shifting. Those nations which strive to advance, will. Those nations which rest on their laurels of achievements past, will gradually find themselves with little left to cling to beyond those laurels. I think it's awesome to see previously neglected nations beginning to be able to take part in major space programs. They also come with unique benefits. Like somebody else mentioned, for one thing Venezuela is in a dream scenario for launches. Eastern exposure to the ocean and substantially closer to the equator than e.g. Florida. This means ships taking off from there are able to more optimally sort of 'sling shot' off of Earth's rotation - the Earth rotates Eastward, and fastest at the equator. Same reason that in Andy Weir's Artemis novel, Kenya ended up being a world leader in space. And there's no logical reason this wouldn't happen. Countries can be developed, but they can't be moved.

idlewords 3y ago
Well said. And one further advantage of Venezuela is that crowds of people looting the rocket on the pad will greatly reduce the launch weight.
schiffern 3y ago
> Any achievement they did make was... stolen from somebody else. Yet now their successes in space, industry, science, and technology are completely taken for granted. The two aren't necessarily in contradiction, you may note. Do we have reliable evidence showing Chinese IP theft has slowed? Many nations "bootstrap" internal industry with organized mass IP theft. The US extensively (and quite intentionally) stole from Britain's industrial IP, for instance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater
- adrian_b 3y ago
  Besides the often quoted IP stealing from GB, there are also more recent examples. At the end of WWII, not only the Soviet Union has moved piece by piece many industrial factories from Germany to Russia, but also USA and GB have "stolen" massive amounts of IP from the occupied Germany. One of the most notorious cases in how the American industry of making magnetic tape recorders (e.g. Ampex) and of making magnetic tapes for them has been founded based on the samples brought back from Germany. The case of the liquid-fueled rockets directly connected to this Apollo story needs no further mention. Whenever they could get away with it, no country has refrained from copying foreign better technology. While there in no doubt that China must have done this frequently in the past, in recent years there are little chances for them to benefit from this, because now in many domains their products are much more innovative than anything made in USA, and also in research publications they have many that are also more innovative. I do not believe that sabotaging the Chinese companies that were on the brink to take most of the market share from US companies like Qualcomm and Micron has been the right strategy for counteracting the Chinese threat. This is just a temporary setback for them and there is the risk that they could emerge from it stronger, no longer fearing any US blackmail. This should have been either saved for a more critical moment, when it could have a greater effect, or the so-called "sanctions" should have been real sanctions, and not just anti-competitive measures, i.e. they should have been tied to some political demands made to China, e.g. to recognize Taiwan as an independent country, or to give up their claims to extend their maritime borders.
  - schiffern 3y ago
    >not only the Soviet Union has moved piece by piece many industrial factories from Germany to Russia, but also USA and GB have "stolen" massive amounts of IP from the occupied Germany. Not just the Soviet Union. The USA also moved factories piece by piece.[0] The reverse example occurred during inter-war period, when US companies extensively outsourced to (cheap labor in) Germany. The US companies who exported their factories all made huge profit on paper, which promptly evaporated the moment war broke out. A lesson for the modern age, perhaps? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program
  - 3y ago
eastof 3y ago
Russia seems to be moving ever so slightly to the west and south as of late.
novalis78 3y ago
Aehm… living memory of an impoverished nation that didn’t export anything else than propaganda - not even cheap crap yet. It’s been incredible to watch Capitalism and hard work rescue and empower a nation that was literally completely destroyed by communism in the past 50 years.
janandonly 3y ago
> Countries can be developed, but they can't be moved. Ever heard of Poland? It moved quite a lot.

idlewords 3y ago

Well said. And one further advantage of Venezuela is that crowds of people looting the rocket on the pad will greatly reduce the launch weight.

schiffern 3y ago

> Any achievement they did make was... stolen from somebody else. Yet now their successes in space, industry, science, and technology are completely taken for granted. The two aren't necessarily in contradiction, you may note. Do we have reliable evidence showing Chinese IP theft has slowed? Many nations "bootstrap" internal industry with organized mass IP theft. The US extensively (and quite intentionally) stole from Britain's industrial IP, for instance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater

adrian_b 3y ago
Besides the often quoted IP stealing from GB, there are also more recent examples. At the end of WWII, not only the Soviet Union has moved piece by piece many industrial factories from Germany to Russia, but also USA and GB have "stolen" massive amounts of IP from the occupied Germany. One of the most notorious cases in how the American industry of making magnetic tape recorders (e.g. Ampex) and of making magnetic tapes for them has been founded based on the samples brought back from Germany. The case of the liquid-fueled rockets directly connected to this Apollo story needs no further mention. Whenever they could get away with it, no country has refrained from copying foreign better technology. While there in no doubt that China must have done this frequently in the past, in recent years there are little chances for them to benefit from this, because now in many domains their products are much more innovative than anything made in USA, and also in research publications they have many that are also more innovative. I do not believe that sabotaging the Chinese companies that were on the brink to take most of the market share from US companies like Qualcomm and Micron has been the right strategy for counteracting the Chinese threat. This is just a temporary setback for them and there is the risk that they could emerge from it stronger, no longer fearing any US blackmail. This should have been either saved for a more critical moment, when it could have a greater effect, or the so-called "sanctions" should have been real sanctions, and not just anti-competitive measures, i.e. they should have been tied to some political demands made to China, e.g. to recognize Taiwan as an independent country, or to give up their claims to extend their maritime borders.
- schiffern 3y ago
  >not only the Soviet Union has moved piece by piece many industrial factories from Germany to Russia, but also USA and GB have "stolen" massive amounts of IP from the occupied Germany. Not just the Soviet Union. The USA also moved factories piece by piece.[0] The reverse example occurred during inter-war period, when US companies extensively outsourced to (cheap labor in) Germany. The US companies who exported their factories all made huge profit on paper, which promptly evaporated the moment war broke out. A lesson for the modern age, perhaps? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program
- 3y ago

eastof 3y ago

Russia seems to be moving ever so slightly to the west and south as of late.

novalis78 3y ago

Aehm… living memory of an impoverished nation that didn’t export anything else than propaganda - not even cheap crap yet. It’s been incredible to watch Capitalism and hard work rescue and empower a nation that was literally completely destroyed by communism in the past 50 years.

janandonly 3y ago

> Countries can be developed, but they can't be moved. Ever heard of Poland? It moved quite a lot.