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I have occasional wrist pain (competitive starcraft and being a software engineer not a great combo) - the only real fix for me was going to the gym a lot. Now

I have occasional wrist pain (competitive starcraft and being a software engineer not a great combo) - the only real fix for me was going to the gym a lot. Now that I go to the gym 3-4 times a week, most all of my RSI issues have vanished. Strongly recommend. There is something crushing about wrist pain when your entire value is wrapped up in what you can make computers do. Also, I love the style of this blog with the chat-replies from friends.

xena 3y ago
Yeah, at first when the RSI pain started, it felt it was really scary. Like viscerally scary in a way that is hard to describe unless you have felt that kind of fear. realistically, though knowing that I can use this tool to be able to code, even without the use of my hands, it makes me just feel calm. Obviously, I wouldn't want to lose use of my hands, but should that reality happen it is something that I could actually live with and tolerate. Would suck to give up video games entirely though. It's amazingly ironic that coding without your hands, ends up being faster than coding with your hands, but it wouldn't be reality if it wasn't ironic eh?
- cableshaft 3y ago
  > Would suck to give up video games entirely though. You don't necessarily have to do that. I'm adding voice recognition into the game I'm working on right now, for example. It helps that it's a turn-based strategy game to begin with, though. And there are players that manage to play games with limited or no mobility in their hands at all, with the right accessible controllers.
  - targetx 3y ago
    Playing games on PC has been a trigger for me for a long time and gets uncomfortable quickly. I got a PSVR2 headset last year and it's a great way for me to play games and not be in the same mostly static position all day. I can play games on it without any discomfort (other than wearing the headset itself which isn't great if it's a really hot day) and you can switch up sitting/standing which I also like.
    - cableshaft 3y ago
      I have a Quest 2 and I've had to limit my playing of it not because of wrist RSI but it seems like I tend to accidentally overextend my upper forearm muscles anytime I play anything twitchy in it, like Beat Saber or action games, and my forearm muscles stretch or tear or something and take a while to heal back up. Super annoying. I don't think I'm doing anything too crazy with it either, so it's a little worrying, since it's happened pretty much every time I've played it lately.
  - tubthumper8 3y ago
    > I'm adding voice recognition into the game I'm working on right now, for example. Very cool! I've also found that it's helpful when the game supports different controllers too. I absolutely cannot play games with keyboard & mouse but plugging in an Xbox controller to the PC is completely fine. I'm sure people out there have the opposite experience as me, too.
    - cableshaft 3y ago
      Yeah, I can't do WASD movement that often anymore without pretty bad pain in my fingers (noticed how bad it got for the first time with Halo Infinite), so I prefer using a controller myself nowadays. My game will definitely have controller support also (most of it does now, a few screens are a little spotty I'm planning to fix in the next month or two, and I don't yet have multiple controller support, that may have to wait until later). But it's also fully playable with just clicking a mouse as well.
- citruscomputing 3y ago
  I felt the exact same. The mounting pain, seemingly leading up to needing to take extended medical leave, the feeling of helplessness where interacting with computers in any capacity was excruciating, and feeling... just utterly useless was terrible. Everything I do/am felt like it involved my hands. Talon took me out of that. It was difficult to learn while in pain (if anyone reading this has the spare cycles, I highly suggest learning before you need it), but it entirely freed me from that downward spiral. It's a kind of security that (temporary) health can't quite match – knowing that the accomodations for disability are there, and are really good. Being abled is a temporary state. (For example, I lose the use of my hands while I'm eating!) There was a book I can't recall the name of, in which one of the characters (a human) is stranded on an alien planet. He agrees to a certain type of relationship with his alien benefactor, but doesn't understand the cultural implications of what he's agreeing to. His fingers are lengthened through a medical procedure, so long that he can't hold anything, can't work, can't ever exist on his own again – he exists now only as a thing of beauty, a token for the alien to show off. He spends his days in what I picture as a courtyard in a roman villa, to be shown off to guests. This confers social status on his owner because of the resources it takes to keep a helpless sapient being fed, clothed, and happy. (The last one is debatable.) It is seen as one of the most intimate types of relationships in this culture. I think about this a lot.
beebmam 3y ago
For people reading this comment about RSI and considering this recommendation: please see a doctor and a physical therapist first before you adopt a gym routine. It is very, very easy to hurt yourself if you don't know what you're doing and you already have an injury. Speaking from personal experience.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  The vast majority of doctors, when presented with a patient asking such a thing, will do a 30 second "examination" (if you're lucky), then spout some platitudes about exercise being beneficial in moderation (which you could have gotten from a lifestyle magazine or a fortune cookie), then usher you out after 5 minutes so they can see the next patient waiting in line. Unless you know the doctor personally, or are rich enough to see high-class private practitioners who will actually pay attention to you because of your money and/or status, that would be a gargantuan waste of time. Needless to say, I too am speaking from personal experience.
  - zaptheimpaler 3y ago
    This might be true if you just go ask a generic doctor with no training on the subject but someone trained in sports medicine or a physiotherapist can be very helpful.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > someone trained in sports medicine or a physiotherapist can be very helpful That would indeed come under people who aren't "The vast majority of doctors".
  - yojo 3y ago
    I’ve found it helps to go to your doctor with a game plan. Research your issue, figure out what the desired course of diagnosis and/or treatment is, then ask for it at the doctor’s. They will usually just give you the referral you want. They may ask you to do some wrist exercises first, but if you are persistent, it will happen. Think of primary care as talking to first level support at the call center. If you already know your problem needs a specialist, lead the conversation in that direction.
kraig911 3y ago
I would also advise seeing a doctor but I'll say my doctor recommended me something very similar. I'm not able to go to the gym but what has helped me is I have a bucket with rice in it (I guess you could also use sand?) and I just twist my hand within the bucket of rice while holding and squeezing a tennis ball in it. Do it in a circular motion. One thing I thought was interesting is he said that ortho doctors don't really think ergo keyboards help. I use a kinesis advantage 360 where I can (I still prefer a regular keyboard) I don't see much in the way beyond help with shoulder pain. I've had surgery to fix my RSI/ tunnel nerve inflammation. Anyways where I'm going with this is I do think exercise is a big help.
- creer 3y ago
  No one setup helped me either. What did help me was recognizing that I had a problem and actively changing things - like varying small setup changes like angle to the table. That was mostly enough to stop stressing always the same parts.
- SubGenius 3y ago
  The Kinesis (and now the Moonlander) has really helped with the pain in my hands from severe nerve damage (from a coma) though. I understand it's not exactly RSI, so the mechanism is different. I agree with you about exercise. At this point, I'm nervous to rely on just one single change, so a multi-frontal attack is needed. A consistent stretching routine is probably what helped me deal with pain the most...
- microtonal 3y ago
  Just to counteract your latter point, switching to a split key well keyboard with good palm rests did largely solve my wrist issues. Of course, every person and diagnosis is different.
Aerroon 3y ago
The thing that seems to counteract my wrist pain is pulling exercises. Essentially anything where the wrist is pulled away from the forearm: pull ups, deadlifts, bent over rows, even stretches against the wall. Pushing against the wrist made things worse for me, but the pulling exercises counteract it.
- j45 3y ago
  Exercise bands can help with these too.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  I couldn't do push-ups when starting with a personal trainer due to the wrist pain, but the exercises helped; I'm not sure if it was pulling action, or grip strength / forearm training though; the theory with the latter is that the large muscles pick up more of the slack and offload the smaller painful muscles. that, or just improved blood flow allowing repairs and trapped shit to be taken away.
injidup 3y ago
I had bad RSI for ages. What helps me and other comments have agreed is pulling excercises. Specifically I have a bar at home attached to the ceiling. Just hanging from the bar as long as you can and doing that regularly seems to stretch out the right muscles/tendons. Don't over do it but at the beginning I could only do 20 seconds. Now I can hold on for 1 to 2 minutes depending on the day. I have very little wrist pain any more. I also have a kinesis pro keyboard and a MX master mouse. They both add to the improvement.
- trhway 3y ago
  >What helps me and other comments have agreed is pulling excercises. variation of this - my wife half my weight does her Aikido exercises on my wrists when the wrists start to remind about themselves.
- Roark66 3y ago
  This is interesting, it reminds me of the (sort of) famous "tree hanging" exercise. Which goes like this. Go to a wooded area, find a tree with a strong branch above your head. Grab it and hang off it for a while. Do it daily for a brief time. Supposedly this exercise helps in all sorts of problems that arise in a sedentary lifestyle (hands, arms, back etc). Now, the only problem with doing it here is that most trees here are pines and strong branches start 20m above the ground...
  - yread 3y ago
    You can get a climbing hangboard and hang it over a doorway. Do a pyramid training (2, 4, 6, 8, 6, 4, 2s with 5s pause in between) and your fingers and wrists will get much stronger
    - cmplxconjugate 3y ago
      I use a Beastmaker 1000 hangboard and follow the Emil's Sub-max Daily Fingerboard Routine on the app Crimpd each day. Absolutely amazing results within a month. I really suggest everyone gives it a try.
  - 3y ago
j45 3y ago
I had one flare up that got my attention. Strengthening is definitely a huge part of it if not most .. more often than not. A few other things helped, if you have them use your benefits to verify with a physiotherapist or professional. Wrist support: M-brace makes an excellent and minimally invasive strap. Good to west while sleeping if you twist it while sleeping. There’s an older version of this which was an angled bracket which works in many positions. Helps relieve from fatigue or not get fatigued as easily. https://m-brace.com/produit/wrist-support-132/ https://m-brace.com/produit/wrist-support-132/ Laptops are generally awful ergonomics especially if you aren’t as active as may need to be. Invest in an ergonomic keyboards, ergomice, vertical mice, trackpads. Variety is the best ergonomics. Minimize or stop using laptop keyboards. I use Logitech k860, Microsoft ErgoSculpt keyboard, kinesis freestyle widest separation at times, even though they are not mechanical. Slim keys are actually pretty good. If you have a standing desk use it more often to change up the angles and use different muscles. Strengthening: - A gyroball works well. Builds up the core muscles. https://www.amazon.com/NSD-Essential-Strengthener-Exerciser-Crystal/dp/B00KNBVVXG/ https://www.amazon.com/NSD-Essential-Strengthener-Exerciser-... - Wrist curls, not too much weight, get advice. Don’t overdo it. - Finger strengthening using hand grips - If you can find some hand massage or scraping tools and learn how tonier them they can alleviate a lot of stiffness in hands and forearms.
ubercore 3y ago
I've found this true for a lot of unexpected things. It makes sense in the end, but is a little unintuitive at first that lots of deadlifting completely fixed some crippling back pain I was going through at one point.
heavyset_go 3y ago
If you're going to do this, make sure you work out the muscles that support your wrists before you start lifting heavy things. If you already have an injury, you want to build up supporting muscles first so you don't end up making it worse, and start slow.
locuscoeruleus 3y ago
Competitive RTS, programming and being able to stand on my hands for minutes at the time left me with wrists that hurt all the time. After I started climbing all wrist and back pain has disappeared.
lm28469 3y ago
> the only real fix for me was going to the gym a lot. > Strongly recommend. It fixes most modern afflictions of sedentary < 60 years old people, very very strongly recommended indeed
- rob74 3y ago
  Not sure about wrist problems (fortunately I don't have any), but I can definitely say that it helped my lower back pain...
- r2_pilot 3y ago
  >It fixes most modern afflictions of sedentary < 60 years old people Under physical therapy supervision, my >60-year old mother is exercising fairly vigorously (for her age) and has been seeing great improvements in her overall health and strength, so don't let age be a factor and get professional help if needed.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Oh yeah for sure, it's just that with age more and more things have more to do with luck and genetics than exercise, but it's still extremely important of course.
brenainn 3y ago
My remedy for the RSI in my right hand (stiffness and pain in the fingers and knuckles) is gripping as hard as possible. If I work out I remind myself to grip everything as hard as I possibly can, and I add light dumbbell exercises so I can specifically focus on gripping as hard as possible. If I'm at my desk or wherever I also occasionally make a fist as hard and tense as I can. The pain has gone away and my hand has its full range of motion again. Of course, for all I know I could be doing something wrong and my hand will blow out in a few years. Just adding my anecdotal experience.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

xena 3y ago

Yeah, at first when the RSI pain started, it felt it was really scary. Like viscerally scary in a way that is hard to describe unless you have felt that kind of fear. realistically, though knowing that I can use this tool to be able to code, even without the use of my hands, it makes me just feel calm. Obviously, I wouldn't want to lose use of my hands, but should that reality happen it is something that I could actually live with and tolerate. Would suck to give up video games entirely though. It's amazingly ironic that coding without your hands, ends up being faster than coding with your hands, but it wouldn't be reality if it wasn't ironic eh?

cableshaft 3y ago
> Would suck to give up video games entirely though. You don't necessarily have to do that. I'm adding voice recognition into the game I'm working on right now, for example. It helps that it's a turn-based strategy game to begin with, though. And there are players that manage to play games with limited or no mobility in their hands at all, with the right accessible controllers.
- targetx 3y ago
  Playing games on PC has been a trigger for me for a long time and gets uncomfortable quickly. I got a PSVR2 headset last year and it's a great way for me to play games and not be in the same mostly static position all day. I can play games on it without any discomfort (other than wearing the headset itself which isn't great if it's a really hot day) and you can switch up sitting/standing which I also like.
  - cableshaft 3y ago
    I have a Quest 2 and I've had to limit my playing of it not because of wrist RSI but it seems like I tend to accidentally overextend my upper forearm muscles anytime I play anything twitchy in it, like Beat Saber or action games, and my forearm muscles stretch or tear or something and take a while to heal back up. Super annoying. I don't think I'm doing anything too crazy with it either, so it's a little worrying, since it's happened pretty much every time I've played it lately.
- tubthumper8 3y ago
  > I'm adding voice recognition into the game I'm working on right now, for example. Very cool! I've also found that it's helpful when the game supports different controllers too. I absolutely cannot play games with keyboard & mouse but plugging in an Xbox controller to the PC is completely fine. I'm sure people out there have the opposite experience as me, too.
  - cableshaft 3y ago
    Yeah, I can't do WASD movement that often anymore without pretty bad pain in my fingers (noticed how bad it got for the first time with Halo Infinite), so I prefer using a controller myself nowadays. My game will definitely have controller support also (most of it does now, a few screens are a little spotty I'm planning to fix in the next month or two, and I don't yet have multiple controller support, that may have to wait until later). But it's also fully playable with just clicking a mouse as well.
citruscomputing 3y ago
I felt the exact same. The mounting pain, seemingly leading up to needing to take extended medical leave, the feeling of helplessness where interacting with computers in any capacity was excruciating, and feeling... just utterly useless was terrible. Everything I do/am felt like it involved my hands. Talon took me out of that. It was difficult to learn while in pain (if anyone reading this has the spare cycles, I highly suggest learning before you need it), but it entirely freed me from that downward spiral. It's a kind of security that (temporary) health can't quite match – knowing that the accomodations for disability are there, and are really good. Being abled is a temporary state. (For example, I lose the use of my hands while I'm eating!) There was a book I can't recall the name of, in which one of the characters (a human) is stranded on an alien planet. He agrees to a certain type of relationship with his alien benefactor, but doesn't understand the cultural implications of what he's agreeing to. His fingers are lengthened through a medical procedure, so long that he can't hold anything, can't work, can't ever exist on his own again – he exists now only as a thing of beauty, a token for the alien to show off. He spends his days in what I picture as a courtyard in a roman villa, to be shown off to guests. This confers social status on his owner because of the resources it takes to keep a helpless sapient being fed, clothed, and happy. (The last one is debatable.) It is seen as one of the most intimate types of relationships in this culture. I think about this a lot.

beebmam 3y ago

For people reading this comment about RSI and considering this recommendation: please see a doctor and a physical therapist first before you adopt a gym routine. It is very, very easy to hurt yourself if you don't know what you're doing and you already have an injury. Speaking from personal experience.

p-e-w 3y ago
The vast majority of doctors, when presented with a patient asking such a thing, will do a 30 second "examination" (if you're lucky), then spout some platitudes about exercise being beneficial in moderation (which you could have gotten from a lifestyle magazine or a fortune cookie), then usher you out after 5 minutes so they can see the next patient waiting in line. Unless you know the doctor personally, or are rich enough to see high-class private practitioners who will actually pay attention to you because of your money and/or status, that would be a gargantuan waste of time. Needless to say, I too am speaking from personal experience.
- zaptheimpaler 3y ago
  This might be true if you just go ask a generic doctor with no training on the subject but someone trained in sports medicine or a physiotherapist can be very helpful.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > someone trained in sports medicine or a physiotherapist can be very helpful That would indeed come under people who aren't "The vast majority of doctors".
- yojo 3y ago
  I’ve found it helps to go to your doctor with a game plan. Research your issue, figure out what the desired course of diagnosis and/or treatment is, then ask for it at the doctor’s. They will usually just give you the referral you want. They may ask you to do some wrist exercises first, but if you are persistent, it will happen. Think of primary care as talking to first level support at the call center. If you already know your problem needs a specialist, lead the conversation in that direction.

kraig911 3y ago

I would also advise seeing a doctor but I'll say my doctor recommended me something very similar. I'm not able to go to the gym but what has helped me is I have a bucket with rice in it (I guess you could also use sand?) and I just twist my hand within the bucket of rice while holding and squeezing a tennis ball in it. Do it in a circular motion. One thing I thought was interesting is he said that ortho doctors don't really think ergo keyboards help. I use a kinesis advantage 360 where I can (I still prefer a regular keyboard) I don't see much in the way beyond help with shoulder pain. I've had surgery to fix my RSI/ tunnel nerve inflammation. Anyways where I'm going with this is I do think exercise is a big help.

creer 3y ago
No one setup helped me either. What did help me was recognizing that I had a problem and actively changing things - like varying small setup changes like angle to the table. That was mostly enough to stop stressing always the same parts.
SubGenius 3y ago
The Kinesis (and now the Moonlander) has really helped with the pain in my hands from severe nerve damage (from a coma) though. I understand it's not exactly RSI, so the mechanism is different. I agree with you about exercise. At this point, I'm nervous to rely on just one single change, so a multi-frontal attack is needed. A consistent stretching routine is probably what helped me deal with pain the most...
microtonal 3y ago
Just to counteract your latter point, switching to a split key well keyboard with good palm rests did largely solve my wrist issues. Of course, every person and diagnosis is different.

Aerroon 3y ago

The thing that seems to counteract my wrist pain is pulling exercises. Essentially anything where the wrist is pulled away from the forearm: pull ups, deadlifts, bent over rows, even stretches against the wall. Pushing against the wrist made things worse for me, but the pulling exercises counteract it.

j45 3y ago
Exercise bands can help with these too.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
I couldn't do push-ups when starting with a personal trainer due to the wrist pain, but the exercises helped; I'm not sure if it was pulling action, or grip strength / forearm training though; the theory with the latter is that the large muscles pick up more of the slack and offload the smaller painful muscles. that, or just improved blood flow allowing repairs and trapped shit to be taken away.

injidup 3y ago

I had bad RSI for ages. What helps me and other comments have agreed is pulling excercises. Specifically I have a bar at home attached to the ceiling. Just hanging from the bar as long as you can and doing that regularly seems to stretch out the right muscles/tendons. Don't over do it but at the beginning I could only do 20 seconds. Now I can hold on for 1 to 2 minutes depending on the day. I have very little wrist pain any more. I also have a kinesis pro keyboard and a MX master mouse. They both add to the improvement.

trhway 3y ago
>What helps me and other comments have agreed is pulling excercises. variation of this - my wife half my weight does her Aikido exercises on my wrists when the wrists start to remind about themselves.
Roark66 3y ago
This is interesting, it reminds me of the (sort of) famous "tree hanging" exercise. Which goes like this. Go to a wooded area, find a tree with a strong branch above your head. Grab it and hang off it for a while. Do it daily for a brief time. Supposedly this exercise helps in all sorts of problems that arise in a sedentary lifestyle (hands, arms, back etc). Now, the only problem with doing it here is that most trees here are pines and strong branches start 20m above the ground...
- yread 3y ago
  You can get a climbing hangboard and hang it over a doorway. Do a pyramid training (2, 4, 6, 8, 6, 4, 2s with 5s pause in between) and your fingers and wrists will get much stronger
  - cmplxconjugate 3y ago
    I use a Beastmaker 1000 hangboard and follow the Emil's Sub-max Daily Fingerboard Routine on the app Crimpd each day. Absolutely amazing results within a month. I really suggest everyone gives it a try.
- 3y ago

j45 3y ago

I had one flare up that got my attention. Strengthening is definitely a huge part of it if not most .. more often than not. A few other things helped, if you have them use your benefits to verify with a physiotherapist or professional. Wrist support: M-brace makes an excellent and minimally invasive strap. Good to west while sleeping if you twist it while sleeping. There’s an older version of this which was an angled bracket which works in many positions. Helps relieve from fatigue or not get fatigued as easily. https://m-brace.com/produit/wrist-support-132/ https://m-brace.com/produit/wrist-support-132/ Laptops are generally awful ergonomics especially if you aren’t as active as may need to be. Invest in an ergonomic keyboards, ergomice, vertical mice, trackpads. Variety is the best ergonomics. Minimize or stop using laptop keyboards. I use Logitech k860, Microsoft ErgoSculpt keyboard, kinesis freestyle widest separation at times, even though they are not mechanical. Slim keys are actually pretty good. If you have a standing desk use it more often to change up the angles and use different muscles. Strengthening: - A gyroball works well. Builds up the core muscles. https://www.amazon.com/NSD-Essential-Strengthener-Exerciser-Crystal/dp/B00KNBVVXG/ https://www.amazon.com/NSD-Essential-Strengthener-Exerciser-... - Wrist curls, not too much weight, get advice. Don’t overdo it. - Finger strengthening using hand grips - If you can find some hand massage or scraping tools and learn how tonier them they can alleviate a lot of stiffness in hands and forearms.

ubercore 3y ago

I've found this true for a lot of unexpected things. It makes sense in the end, but is a little unintuitive at first that lots of deadlifting completely fixed some crippling back pain I was going through at one point.

heavyset_go 3y ago

If you're going to do this, make sure you work out the muscles that support your wrists before you start lifting heavy things. If you already have an injury, you want to build up supporting muscles first so you don't end up making it worse, and start slow.

locuscoeruleus 3y ago

Competitive RTS, programming and being able to stand on my hands for minutes at the time left me with wrists that hurt all the time. After I started climbing all wrist and back pain has disappeared.

lm28469 3y ago

> the only real fix for me was going to the gym a lot. > Strongly recommend. It fixes most modern afflictions of sedentary < 60 years old people, very very strongly recommended indeed

rob74 3y ago
Not sure about wrist problems (fortunately I don't have any), but I can definitely say that it helped my lower back pain...
r2_pilot 3y ago
>It fixes most modern afflictions of sedentary < 60 years old people Under physical therapy supervision, my >60-year old mother is exercising fairly vigorously (for her age) and has been seeing great improvements in her overall health and strength, so don't let age be a factor and get professional help if needed.
- lm28469 3y ago
  Oh yeah for sure, it's just that with age more and more things have more to do with luck and genetics than exercise, but it's still extremely important of course.

brenainn 3y ago

My remedy for the RSI in my right hand (stiffness and pain in the fingers and knuckles) is gripping as hard as possible. If I work out I remind myself to grip everything as hard as I possibly can, and I add light dumbbell exercises so I can specifically focus on gripping as hard as possible. If I'm at my desk or wherever I also occasionally make a fist as hard and tense as I can. The pain has gone away and my hand has its full range of motion again. Of course, for all I know I could be doing something wrong and my hand will blow out in a few years. Just adding my anecdotal experience.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]