4 ms·

To note, "it's cultural" usually means "they've tried a lot of options and this one stuck as the most pragmatic at a social level" There's just so many reasons

To note, "it's cultural" usually means "they've tried a lot of options and this one stuck as the most pragmatic at a social level" There's just so many reasons to not accept tips. In tipping countries it's seen as a boost for productivity, while in practice it also generates friction within the staff, widens the gap between day and night staff, blurries the client/staff relationship and makes kitchen staff miserable. And just so many additional reasons.

em-bee 3y ago
"they've tried a lot of options and this one stuck as the most pragmatic at a social level" i am very skeptical of that claim. many cultural practices are done because they have always been done that way. and the reasons they evolved is long forgotten
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Cultural practices that don't match the current society either have such a low impact that getting rid of them isn't a priority, or they're not long for this world. Sometimes practices can feel completely at odds with one's believes, but if they're still widely adopted it usually means influential parts of society are still relying on them.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    tipping came out of a need of rich people to show off their wealth. i don't think anyone remembers that. tips were given to servants who, in some way or form had a full-time job (or were slaves) with food and a place to sleep. they likely had bad working and living conditions and were being exploited by todays standards, but that wasn't the reason they got tips. those societies that don't have a culture of tipping, probably never had it to begin with. if they're still widely adopted it usually means influential parts of society are still relying on them. the problem with this is that waiters didn't start out relying on tips. that came later. essentially waiters are now being exploited by their employers. and that exploitation is being enabled through tipping. but now it's hard to change that, unless waiters start to demand more pay.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      >> influential parts of society are still relying on them. > waiters are now being exploited by their employers So yes, employers are relying on tips to exploit waiters, and they have more influence on their society than the waiters. To answer your point on societies that don't have a tipping culture (I guess you mean a vibrant tipping culture. I don't think there is any society with absolutely no tipping whatsoever): when the balance of influence changes, culture also changes. As an example, French people had a wider tipping culture, but workers fought for higher minimum wages, stronger right, and gave the finger to conditions where they need tips to make a living, or even get paid fairly. Cafes and restaurants moved to baked in service fees, and staff doesn't expect any tip as they don't need to. Employees had more influence than their employers and the situation changed.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        I don't think there is any society with absolutely no tipping whatsoever there are. in china people will get confused if you try to tip. it's just not done. exceptions only in areas with lots of western tourists. apparently in japan people get offended if you tip.

em-bee 3y ago

"they've tried a lot of options and this one stuck as the most pragmatic at a social level" i am very skeptical of that claim. many cultural practices are done because they have always been done that way. and the reasons they evolved is long forgotten

makeitdouble 3y ago
Cultural practices that don't match the current society either have such a low impact that getting rid of them isn't a priority, or they're not long for this world. Sometimes practices can feel completely at odds with one's believes, but if they're still widely adopted it usually means influential parts of society are still relying on them.
- em-bee 3y ago
  tipping came out of a need of rich people to show off their wealth. i don't think anyone remembers that. tips were given to servants who, in some way or form had a full-time job (or were slaves) with food and a place to sleep. they likely had bad working and living conditions and were being exploited by todays standards, but that wasn't the reason they got tips. those societies that don't have a culture of tipping, probably never had it to begin with. if they're still widely adopted it usually means influential parts of society are still relying on them. the problem with this is that waiters didn't start out relying on tips. that came later. essentially waiters are now being exploited by their employers. and that exploitation is being enabled through tipping. but now it's hard to change that, unless waiters start to demand more pay.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    >> influential parts of society are still relying on them. > waiters are now being exploited by their employers So yes, employers are relying on tips to exploit waiters, and they have more influence on their society than the waiters. To answer your point on societies that don't have a tipping culture (I guess you mean a vibrant tipping culture. I don't think there is any society with absolutely no tipping whatsoever): when the balance of influence changes, culture also changes. As an example, French people had a wider tipping culture, but workers fought for higher minimum wages, stronger right, and gave the finger to conditions where they need tips to make a living, or even get paid fairly. Cafes and restaurants moved to baked in service fees, and staff doesn't expect any tip as they don't need to. Employees had more influence than their employers and the situation changed.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      I don't think there is any society with absolutely no tipping whatsoever there are. in china people will get confused if you try to tip. it's just not done. exceptions only in areas with lots of western tourists. apparently in japan people get offended if you tip.