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If that’s the case, then why did these platforms exist in the past and don’t exist now? I’m not just talking about virtual platforms, but also physical public f

If that’s the case, then why did these platforms exist in the past and don’t exist now? I’m not just talking about virtual platforms, but also physical public forums and meetups. I agree with what you’re saying about admins, but the “who” that is shooting the bullet seems to be a growing bipartisan antiliberal movement. It’s not just my personal experience; globally there’s been a decrease in freedom of speech metrics with the US experiencing less of a decline than the average but still a significant one.

krapp 3y ago
You're going to have to get into specifics, I doubt "a growing bipartisan antiliberal movement" is responsible for the categorical removal of free platforms from the internet. This seems like a framing designed to avoid necessary context or mischaracterize motives. If you mean, for instance, Kiwifarms - their ISP and Cloudflare refused to do business with them for reasons other than being "antiliberal." You can't blame opposition to heinous behavior, or not wanting to do business with or be associated with KF, on simply being opposed to free speech. But they still exist, AFAIK. Gab was similarly "cancelled" by their host and service providers, because the platform itself and its behavior had become too toxic to be associated with, and violated terms of service for those partners. Again, free speech doesn't guarantee a platform - it's a marketplace of ideas and you have to convince people your ideas are worth their time, doubly so where business associations are involved. Gab was fine until they started planning an insurrection and cheering on mass shooters. Trump was fine until he lost his mind and threatened the peaceful transfer of power. Omegele was fine until someone sued over the one thing Omegele is known for. There are always limits, everywhere. There are plenty of reasons to not want to be associated with such platforms and their content besides opposition to freedom of speech, but conflating everything into the actions of an "antiliberal movement" seems like bad faith. So I don't know. You see attacks on free speech, I see the inevitable consequences of bad actors pushing things too far.
- injeolmi_love 3y ago
  I cannot get into specifics because I don’t want to get banned on hacker news. I will generally wave in the direction of authorities that are violating human rights.
  - krapp 3y ago
    If you're gesturing in the general direction of the Israel/Palestine discourse, I would agree with you that the eagerness with which a lot of that has been stifled in the public sphere is disturbing. But it's also still going on regardless, even on HN. And I still wouldn't hold up Omegle as an example of the same class of problem. Freedom of speech should cover political disagreement and debate, but it shouldn't cover sexual abuse.
rainonmoon 3y ago
You can literally develop and stand up Omegle tomorrow if you want to, dude. Nobody's going to stop you until you start enabling child sexual abuse, so go ahead.
- behringer 3y ago
  Pretty sure the person filing lawsuits would try and stop you
- RecycledEle 3y ago
  Stop trolling. Every web site I ever built with ANY political content was vandalized by my hosting providers then disabled.
  - krapp 3y ago
    That's odd. I see political content all over the web, all the time. And there are hosting providers whose entire business model is hosting "controversial" content. Also, Omegle didn't host political content. Also, no one vandalized it or took it down until someone sued the site owners over a crime being committed, not for any political expression.

krapp 3y ago

You're going to have to get into specifics, I doubt "a growing bipartisan antiliberal movement" is responsible for the categorical removal of free platforms from the internet. This seems like a framing designed to avoid necessary context or mischaracterize motives. If you mean, for instance, Kiwifarms - their ISP and Cloudflare refused to do business with them for reasons other than being "antiliberal." You can't blame opposition to heinous behavior, or not wanting to do business with or be associated with KF, on simply being opposed to free speech. But they still exist, AFAIK. Gab was similarly "cancelled" by their host and service providers, because the platform itself and its behavior had become too toxic to be associated with, and violated terms of service for those partners. Again, free speech doesn't guarantee a platform - it's a marketplace of ideas and you have to convince people your ideas are worth their time, doubly so where business associations are involved. Gab was fine until they started planning an insurrection and cheering on mass shooters. Trump was fine until he lost his mind and threatened the peaceful transfer of power. Omegele was fine until someone sued over the one thing Omegele is known for. There are always limits, everywhere. There are plenty of reasons to not want to be associated with such platforms and their content besides opposition to freedom of speech, but conflating everything into the actions of an "antiliberal movement" seems like bad faith. So I don't know. You see attacks on free speech, I see the inevitable consequences of bad actors pushing things too far.

injeolmi_love 3y ago
I cannot get into specifics because I don’t want to get banned on hacker news. I will generally wave in the direction of authorities that are violating human rights.
- krapp 3y ago
  If you're gesturing in the general direction of the Israel/Palestine discourse, I would agree with you that the eagerness with which a lot of that has been stifled in the public sphere is disturbing. But it's also still going on regardless, even on HN. And I still wouldn't hold up Omegle as an example of the same class of problem. Freedom of speech should cover political disagreement and debate, but it shouldn't cover sexual abuse.

rainonmoon 3y ago

You can literally develop and stand up Omegle tomorrow if you want to, dude. Nobody's going to stop you until you start enabling child sexual abuse, so go ahead.

behringer 3y ago
Pretty sure the person filing lawsuits would try and stop you
RecycledEle 3y ago
Stop trolling. Every web site I ever built with ANY political content was vandalized by my hosting providers then disabled.
- krapp 3y ago
  That's odd. I see political content all over the web, all the time. And there are hosting providers whose entire business model is hosting "controversial" content. Also, Omegle didn't host political content. Also, no one vandalized it or took it down until someone sued the site owners over a crime being committed, not for any political expression.