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> MindGeek should buy Tumblr and allow adult content again. MindGeek isn't interested in new investments allowing independent content creation. MindGeek has

> MindGeek should buy Tumblr and allow adult content again. MindGeek isn't interested in new investments allowing independent content creation. MindGeek has been the target of active - and successful - campaigns from anti-pornography groups with explicit religious motivation (Exodus Cry, Morality in Media, etc., mostly funded by right-wing evangelicals). Those groups are the reason that Xtube shut down in 2021, and that Pornhub removed all independent content a couple of months later. Those same groups are also behind the new "age verification" laws in a number of states, which are the reason that accessing many big-name tube websites (both from MindGeek and other properties) now requires uploading your drivers' license along with biometric face scans, even when viewed from states which don't have such laws on the books. There's been a war on pornography on the Internet for the last several years, and the anti-pornography groups have won nearly every battle, in part because the only opposition has come from sex workers, who have very little lobbying influence. For some reason, most digital rights or general First Amendment advocacy groups have paid very little attention. If you wrote on HN in 2017 suggesting the possibility of a total ban on pornography on the Internet within a few years, you'd have been dismissed outright. But we're actually pretty close to a de facto ban on pornography on the Internet. Very few websites still allow independent creators to upload pornography. Most of the ones that were around in 2017 either are dead, no longer allow pornography (Tumblr, Imgur), heavily restrict its visibility (Reddit), or only allow it from "verified creators", which limits it to commercial production (Pornhub). Even self-hosting is going to become harder, as these groups are shifting their focus towards pressuring payment platforms and hosting providers to drop customers who produce sexual content. Will pornography be literally banned on the Internet in a few years? Probably not. But will it be extremely difficult to either find or post sexual imagery or nudity within that timeframe? Probably - and so far, the anti-porn activists have actually been operating ahead of their own schedule.

gspencley 3y ago
While I don't disagree with the bulk of your comment, it's worth noting that PornHub / MindGeek didn't just shoot themselves in the foot but hurt the entire industry when there were numerous videos of missing teens and underage content found on their site. I say this as someone who ran an adult website for 18 years, in Canada, until suddenly our bank informed us that they were closing our commercial accounts and we couldn't find a single other bank or credit union in this country that would take our business despite a pristine 18 year track record. The only thing that had changed was the MindGeek scandal. Maybe the media misrepresented it, maybe the content issues were fabricated by "anti-pornography" groups. But one day everything is fine, the next day MindGeek (a Canadian company) is in the news and the next day we're shut down despite having done nothing wrong. It's hard for me to scapegoat conservatives and anti-porn groups when they were WAY more vocal and active when I first started my business (back in 2004 this was when the George W Bush administration was prosecuting obscenity for the first time in decades, and passing USC 18 2557). By 2022 they had virtually gone away. Then MindGeek was caught allowing some some really shady shit on PornHub. Also this was just a year or two after the Girls Do Porn scandal (Google it if you're unaware). Those girls suing those assholes for sexual abuse and contractual misrepresentation was not "anti-porn groups." So my take, as a former business owner in the industry, was that it took a few public scandals and scares for the banks and corporate America to go "hmm... maybe we were wrong to get too liberal with this stuff." Some of that may have been fueled by the anti-porn lobby .. but if MindGeek had kept their nose clean it likely wouldn't have worked.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > While I don't disagree with the bulk of your comment, it's worth noting that PornHub / MindGeek didn't just shoot themselves in the foot but hurt the entire industry when there were numerous videos of missing teens and underage content found on their site. This itself is a misconception driven by those anti-pornography groups. MindGeek was incredibly good about removing CSAM from their platform, not just reactively but proactively. If you look at the numbers, Facebook is actually a much larger source of child sexual exploitation material than Pornhub was. However, Exodus Cry doesn't care about CSAM on Facebook, because their goal isn't to end CSAM: it's to end pornography. > It's hard for me to scapegoat conservatives and anti-porn groups when they were WAY more vocal and active when I first started my business Anti-porn groups are way more active today than they were in the early Bush years. The difference is that, unlike then, their campaigns aren't receiving any attention outside the business, which is part of why they're so successful: there's no real opposition. > if MindGeek had kept their nose clean it likely wouldn't have worked. Anti-porn groups aren't going after these companies because they have scandals. They're going after them because they oppose pornography, and it fits their agenda. If they cared about ending child exploitation, they would go after companies like Facebook - but they don't, because that doesn't accomplish their explict, stated goal of ending commercial sex work. It's missing the point to blame MindGeek for the "scandal" when they're nowhere near the worst offender - they're just being targeted by groups who have a specific political agenda. No matter how much work MindGeek does to eliminate CSAM, anti-porn groups will claim that it's not enough. The leader of the Exodus Cry campaign has literally said that they want to make it impossible for MindGeek to operate legally.
- jimbob45 3y ago
  I say this as someone who ran an adult website for 18 years, in Canada, until suddenly our bank informed us that they were closing our commercial accounts and we couldn't find a single other bank or credit union in this country that would take our business despite a pristine 18 year track record. Was there no way around it? Maybe with a shell company to hide your real business? I know it didn’t end up working out, I’m just curious if there looked to be any way out or if you really were just locked out of banking.

gspencley 3y ago

While I don't disagree with the bulk of your comment, it's worth noting that PornHub / MindGeek didn't just shoot themselves in the foot but hurt the entire industry when there were numerous videos of missing teens and underage content found on their site. I say this as someone who ran an adult website for 18 years, in Canada, until suddenly our bank informed us that they were closing our commercial accounts and we couldn't find a single other bank or credit union in this country that would take our business despite a pristine 18 year track record. The only thing that had changed was the MindGeek scandal. Maybe the media misrepresented it, maybe the content issues were fabricated by "anti-pornography" groups. But one day everything is fine, the next day MindGeek (a Canadian company) is in the news and the next day we're shut down despite having done nothing wrong. It's hard for me to scapegoat conservatives and anti-porn groups when they were WAY more vocal and active when I first started my business (back in 2004 this was when the George W Bush administration was prosecuting obscenity for the first time in decades, and passing USC 18 2557). By 2022 they had virtually gone away. Then MindGeek was caught allowing some some really shady shit on PornHub. Also this was just a year or two after the Girls Do Porn scandal (Google it if you're unaware). Those girls suing those assholes for sexual abuse and contractual misrepresentation was not "anti-porn groups." So my take, as a former business owner in the industry, was that it took a few public scandals and scares for the banks and corporate America to go "hmm... maybe we were wrong to get too liberal with this stuff." Some of that may have been fueled by the anti-porn lobby .. but if MindGeek had kept their nose clean it likely wouldn't have worked.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> While I don't disagree with the bulk of your comment, it's worth noting that PornHub / MindGeek didn't just shoot themselves in the foot but hurt the entire industry when there were numerous videos of missing teens and underage content found on their site. This itself is a misconception driven by those anti-pornography groups. MindGeek was incredibly good about removing CSAM from their platform, not just reactively but proactively. If you look at the numbers, Facebook is actually a much larger source of child sexual exploitation material than Pornhub was. However, Exodus Cry doesn't care about CSAM on Facebook, because their goal isn't to end CSAM: it's to end pornography. > It's hard for me to scapegoat conservatives and anti-porn groups when they were WAY more vocal and active when I first started my business Anti-porn groups are way more active today than they were in the early Bush years. The difference is that, unlike then, their campaigns aren't receiving any attention outside the business, which is part of why they're so successful: there's no real opposition. > if MindGeek had kept their nose clean it likely wouldn't have worked. Anti-porn groups aren't going after these companies because they have scandals. They're going after them because they oppose pornography, and it fits their agenda. If they cared about ending child exploitation, they would go after companies like Facebook - but they don't, because that doesn't accomplish their explict, stated goal of ending commercial sex work. It's missing the point to blame MindGeek for the "scandal" when they're nowhere near the worst offender - they're just being targeted by groups who have a specific political agenda. No matter how much work MindGeek does to eliminate CSAM, anti-porn groups will claim that it's not enough. The leader of the Exodus Cry campaign has literally said that they want to make it impossible for MindGeek to operate legally.
jimbob45 3y ago
I say this as someone who ran an adult website for 18 years, in Canada, until suddenly our bank informed us that they were closing our commercial accounts and we couldn't find a single other bank or credit union in this country that would take our business despite a pristine 18 year track record. Was there no way around it? Maybe with a shell company to hide your real business? I know it didn’t end up working out, I’m just curious if there looked to be any way out or if you really were just locked out of banking.