6 ms·

That’s not legally a contractor then. As someone who has done contracting, both for software and in construction plus has hired them and had to be advised by l

That’s not legally a contractor then. As someone who has done contracting, both for software and in construction plus has hired them and had to be advised by lawyers around the legality of what makes or breaks a contractor… If you are setting their hours, bossing them around and/or providing equipment they are not a contractor they are an employee. This is the law in 100% of the United States.

ponector 3y ago
How would you call people who are hired by bodyshop(IT service providers like Infosys, Cognizant, Epam) and then leased to Google?
- vasco 3y ago
  I call them exploited emigrants
jasode 3y ago
>That’s not legally a contractor then. [...] If you are setting their hours, bossing them around and/or providing equipment they are not a contractor they are an employee. There are 2 different uses of "contractor": (1) contractor : official IRS tax classification of 1099 independent contractor (2) "contractor" : a W-2 employee of a "temp agency" or "staffing agency" or "bodyshop" that is sent to a client company (such as Google) needing contingent workers. Adecco[1] is an example of a staffing company that sends people to Google. These temp agencies with workers classified as W-2 employees act as legal cover to "avoid repeating Microsoft lawsuits". From Google's perspective, these Adecco employees are "contractors". If the above working arrangement looks convoluted with the economic inefficiencies of paying for an extra middleman (the temp agencies), it is. But it cleverly avoids the IRS claiming, "Hey Google, your so-called contractors are misclassified and should be employees!" ... and Google can say, "They already are employees! They're Adecco employees!" The "1099 real contractor" is not as common as "fake-contractor-but-really-somebody-elses-W2-employee" ... because the "1099 contractors" won their lawsuit against Microsoft. [1] https://www.adeccousa.com/ https://www.adeccousa.com/
- Consultant32452 3y ago
  I'm a mostly fake contractor. I miss the good old days when I could fake contractor directly to companies. Now I have to go through a middle-man that takes a cut. I still make triple what I was making before, but it bothers me that the middle man is likely taking 30-50% off the top. These laws do not protect workers, they protect entrenched wealthy body shops.
- Tangurena2 3y ago
  The tax reform act of 1986 removes the safe-harbor provision for engineers and programmers. This strange sentence means that if a company hires an engineer or programmer - as an independent contractor - and the IRS later decides that this person is really an employee, then the company is liable for back taxes and probably penalties. For other professions, the "safe harbor" provision means that the company is only liable for paying the employer share of taxes going forwards - the previous stuff is handwaved away. In effect, this scares companies so much that it is very difficult to get hired as a 1099 contractor as a programmer/engineer. The vast majority of companies will require you to be a W-2 employee of some other company (which will be the "staffing agency" or "bodyshop" or "temp agency"). One programmer was driven to fly his aircraft into an IRS building due to this issue. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/us/19crash.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/us/19crash.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack
- bradleyjg 3y ago
  Why is it that w-2 employees of a different company can’t be invited to a lunch or given a tchotchke? I get why 1099s can’t but what’s the deal with the other, now more common situation?
  - mtnGoat 3y ago
    They could be, but that creates taxable events and other issues/complications/liabilities. Easier to just avoid and be clear of it.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Because this [https://www.reuters.com/article/businesspropicks-us-findlaw-dont-treat-c/dont-treat-contractors-like-employees-idUSTRE53063S20090401 https://www.reuters.com/article/businesspropicks-us-findlaw-...]

ponector 3y ago

How would you call people who are hired by bodyshop(IT service providers like Infosys, Cognizant, Epam) and then leased to Google?

vasco 3y ago
I call them exploited emigrants

jasode 3y ago

>That’s not legally a contractor then. [...] If you are setting their hours, bossing them around and/or providing equipment they are not a contractor they are an employee. There are 2 different uses of "contractor": (1) contractor : official IRS tax classification of 1099 independent contractor (2) "contractor" : a W-2 employee of a "temp agency" or "staffing agency" or "bodyshop" that is sent to a client company (such as Google) needing contingent workers. Adecco[1] is an example of a staffing company that sends people to Google. These temp agencies with workers classified as W-2 employees act as legal cover to "avoid repeating Microsoft lawsuits". From Google's perspective, these Adecco employees are "contractors". If the above working arrangement looks convoluted with the economic inefficiencies of paying for an extra middleman (the temp agencies), it is. But it cleverly avoids the IRS claiming, "Hey Google, your so-called contractors are misclassified and should be employees!" ... and Google can say, "They already are employees! They're Adecco employees!" The "1099 real contractor" is not as common as "fake-contractor-but-really-somebody-elses-W2-employee" ... because the "1099 contractors" won their lawsuit against Microsoft. [1] https://www.adeccousa.com/ https://www.adeccousa.com/

Consultant32452 3y ago
I'm a mostly fake contractor. I miss the good old days when I could fake contractor directly to companies. Now I have to go through a middle-man that takes a cut. I still make triple what I was making before, but it bothers me that the middle man is likely taking 30-50% off the top. These laws do not protect workers, they protect entrenched wealthy body shops.
Tangurena2 3y ago
The tax reform act of 1986 removes the safe-harbor provision for engineers and programmers. This strange sentence means that if a company hires an engineer or programmer - as an independent contractor - and the IRS later decides that this person is really an employee, then the company is liable for back taxes and probably penalties. For other professions, the "safe harbor" provision means that the company is only liable for paying the employer share of taxes going forwards - the previous stuff is handwaved away. In effect, this scares companies so much that it is very difficult to get hired as a 1099 contractor as a programmer/engineer. The vast majority of companies will require you to be a W-2 employee of some other company (which will be the "staffing agency" or "bodyshop" or "temp agency"). One programmer was driven to fly his aircraft into an IRS building due to this issue. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/us/19crash.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/us/19crash.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack
bradleyjg 3y ago
Why is it that w-2 employees of a different company can’t be invited to a lunch or given a tchotchke? I get why 1099s can’t but what’s the deal with the other, now more common situation?
- mtnGoat 3y ago
  They could be, but that creates taxable events and other issues/complications/liabilities. Easier to just avoid and be clear of it.
- lazide 3y ago
  Because this [https://www.reuters.com/article/businesspropicks-us-findlaw-dont-treat-c/dont-treat-contractors-like-employees-idUSTRE53063S20090401 https://www.reuters.com/article/businesspropicks-us-findlaw-...]