5 ms·

>Valve turns evil Some people and legislators are arguing that unregulated digital gambling is very very evil

by haunter 3y ago

hovering_nox 3y ago
If you mean gambling in Counter Strike, at least it's not explicitly aimed at children.
- andy_ppp 3y ago
  Children don’t play Counter Strike?
  - askiiart 3y ago
    Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant. It is a game where 50% of the time you play as terrorists shooting law enforcement, it's very obviously not aimed at kids. The only way for kids to gamble in CS at all is to either steal a credit card, which is obviously not Valve's fault, or for them to have a Steam gift card. If anything is to be done about the children, I think Valve should just 1) require a users to have a credit card on file in order to buy lootboxes, and 2) require re-entering the full credit card details if the user makes several purchases in a short period of time, in order to stop kids who, for example, memorized the CVV of a card already on file in Steam. Keep in mind that uploading a government ID would have issues, seeing as in the US a driver's license is not universal, not to mention IDs all across the globe. Maybe there's an alternative form of ID that would work that I just can't think of, but anyways, I'm against needing to upload a government ID to access anything unless it's specifically for governmental purposes.
    - andy_ppp 3y ago
      > Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant My opinion is that it is relevant... but each to their own I guess.
- henriquez 3y ago
  I was a teenaged boy when I first started playing Counter Strike. Maybe I’m a Luddite but the game is still fun; I feel like you don’t have to gamble or buy 48 cosmetic collectibles to enjoy it.
- kllrnohj 3y ago
  It's explicitly not aimed at children being rated M / mature and with obvious themes implying as much. Obviously children still play it, but there has to be some level of responsibility on the parents here.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Children are not the only group harmed by gambling. Regardless, many children most certainly do play Counter Strike.
  - heyoni 3y ago
    Ok but as a society we’ve settled on letting fully grown adults partake in some forms of gambling. Are we really equating loot boxes in a mature rated game to casinos that will empty your kids college fund in the span of 12 hours?
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      My point is that the "think of the children" angle is redundant and reductive. We simply don't need to go there to have a discussion on the pros and cons of lootboxes.
- geraldhh 3y ago
  you mean because CS is such a mature community?
brigadier132 3y ago
Gambling is very different from csgo cases and pokemon cards. One of the insidious aspects of gambling is that people can delude themselves that they can actually get rich from it
- RockRobotRock 3y ago
  I'm sorry to tell you this but csgo has a thriving secondary market where you can exchange items for real money.
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    I'm aware and I'm not going to deal in absolutes because I'm sure there are a few people out there that do think they can make money from csgo skins but it's absolutely nothing compared to actual gambling. I'm a former gambling addict, it is very very difficult for me to lose the amount of money I have lost at craps or blackjack playing magic the gathering. I don't think we can classify all variable reward systems as gambling. Even competitive online chess with elo and matchmaking could be classified as gambling.
    - riversflow 3y ago
      I find all this handwringing about cosmetics gambling ridiculous when sports betting is becoming more and more accepted and legal.
      - jacksontheel 3y ago
        For me, if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted. Not that it's good game design, but adults can vote with their attention/money
        filoleg 3y ago
        > if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted There already is, you gotta have a credit card to buy lootboxes. And while I am not aware of the situation all across the globe, in most places you gotta be 18+ to get a credit card. For a debit one you might qualify a couple years earlier in the US (and probably some other countries), but an easy solution would be for Steam to just ping the bank for info on the age of the customer. However, I am not sure if that would be easily possible, especially if we are talking about API-like approaches. The only current workaround is using gift cards, but I somehow doubt that kids resort mostly to that instead of using their parents’ credit cards. But at that point, it is on parents, because there are all sorts of ways to solve the problem on an individual level (e.g., get a card with a low limit just for steam, use a paypal account that you have to manually log into for every transaction on steam and don’t give your kid the credentials, etc). Unfortunately, there is no way one could feasibly stop some parents from just handing their kid a credit card and mentally checking out. And any other solution to the problem that won’t massively inconvenience adult Steam customers seems to be difficult to imagine.
tanepiper 3y ago
laughs in Eve Online

>Valve turns evil Some people and legislators are arguing that unregulated digital gambling is very very evil

hovering_nox 3y ago

If you mean gambling in Counter Strike, at least it's not explicitly aimed at children.

andy_ppp 3y ago
Children don’t play Counter Strike?
- askiiart 3y ago
  Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant. It is a game where 50% of the time you play as terrorists shooting law enforcement, it's very obviously not aimed at kids. The only way for kids to gamble in CS at all is to either steal a credit card, which is obviously not Valve's fault, or for them to have a Steam gift card. If anything is to be done about the children, I think Valve should just 1) require a users to have a credit card on file in order to buy lootboxes, and 2) require re-entering the full credit card details if the user makes several purchases in a short period of time, in order to stop kids who, for example, memorized the CVV of a card already on file in Steam. Keep in mind that uploading a government ID would have issues, seeing as in the US a driver's license is not universal, not to mention IDs all across the globe. Maybe there's an alternative form of ID that would work that I just can't think of, but anyways, I'm against needing to upload a government ID to access anything unless it's specifically for governmental purposes.
  - andy_ppp 3y ago
    > Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant My opinion is that it is relevant... but each to their own I guess.
henriquez 3y ago
I was a teenaged boy when I first started playing Counter Strike. Maybe I’m a Luddite but the game is still fun; I feel like you don’t have to gamble or buy 48 cosmetic collectibles to enjoy it.
kllrnohj 3y ago
It's explicitly not aimed at children being rated M / mature and with obvious themes implying as much. Obviously children still play it, but there has to be some level of responsibility on the parents here.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Children are not the only group harmed by gambling. Regardless, many children most certainly do play Counter Strike.
- heyoni 3y ago
  Ok but as a society we’ve settled on letting fully grown adults partake in some forms of gambling. Are we really equating loot boxes in a mature rated game to casinos that will empty your kids college fund in the span of 12 hours?
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    My point is that the "think of the children" angle is redundant and reductive. We simply don't need to go there to have a discussion on the pros and cons of lootboxes.
geraldhh 3y ago
you mean because CS is such a mature community?

brigadier132 3y ago

Gambling is very different from csgo cases and pokemon cards. One of the insidious aspects of gambling is that people can delude themselves that they can actually get rich from it

RockRobotRock 3y ago
I'm sorry to tell you this but csgo has a thriving secondary market where you can exchange items for real money.
- brigadier132 3y ago
  I'm aware and I'm not going to deal in absolutes because I'm sure there are a few people out there that do think they can make money from csgo skins but it's absolutely nothing compared to actual gambling. I'm a former gambling addict, it is very very difficult for me to lose the amount of money I have lost at craps or blackjack playing magic the gathering. I don't think we can classify all variable reward systems as gambling. Even competitive online chess with elo and matchmaking could be classified as gambling.
  - riversflow 3y ago
    I find all this handwringing about cosmetics gambling ridiculous when sports betting is becoming more and more accepted and legal.
    - jacksontheel 3y ago
      For me, if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted. Not that it's good game design, but adults can vote with their attention/money
      - filoleg 3y ago
        > if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted There already is, you gotta have a credit card to buy lootboxes. And while I am not aware of the situation all across the globe, in most places you gotta be 18+ to get a credit card. For a debit one you might qualify a couple years earlier in the US (and probably some other countries), but an easy solution would be for Steam to just ping the bank for info on the age of the customer. However, I am not sure if that would be easily possible, especially if we are talking about API-like approaches. The only current workaround is using gift cards, but I somehow doubt that kids resort mostly to that instead of using their parents’ credit cards. But at that point, it is on parents, because there are all sorts of ways to solve the problem on an individual level (e.g., get a card with a low limit just for steam, use a paypal account that you have to manually log into for every transaction on steam and don’t give your kid the credentials, etc). Unfortunately, there is no way one could feasibly stop some parents from just handing their kid a credit card and mentally checking out. And any other solution to the problem that won’t massively inconvenience adult Steam customers seems to be difficult to imagine.

tanepiper 3y ago

laughs in Eve Online