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Valve: Install whatever you want from wherever you want - hardware, software, operating system. And they provide you parts and schematics in case you need to r

Valve: Install whatever you want from wherever you want - hardware, software, operating system. And they provide you parts and schematics in case you need to repair/mod your device. Never thought I'd see a day when linux gaming would be as good as what I get via my steam deck these days. Kudos to Valve for embracing such an open approach to gaming/portable devices in general.

sho_hn 3y ago
Given that PC gaming thrives on modding, it's only right that the most PC-like console gets it right.
- erikpukinskis 3y ago
  If that were the natural outcome Xbox would’ve “gotten it right” since it was the most PC-like console before the Steam Deck. The moddability is a deliberate strategy by Valve, and I don’t see it as an inevitable move for every PC-centered company, Microsoft being the prime counterexample.
  - timw4mail 3y ago
    The XBox One and PS4 are very PC-like as well. (Continuing with the PS5 and XBox Series). But yes, Valve does seem to get what gamers want (other than games made by them)
  - amlib 3y ago
    I think it's pretty clear that "PC-like" also means you need an open platform, with the possibility to install any software and operating system you wish, which the xbox nor any console from the major brands allows for.
    - squeaky-clean 3y ago
      Yeah PC means "personal computer", not x64 CPU with an AMD or Nvidia GPU. I don't see how the Xbox is PC-like at all.
      - ewzimm 3y ago
        It’s running Windows, and if you put it in dev mode, which is not much harder than putting a laptop off S mode, you can install anything. It works with a mouse and keyboard. Pretty close to a PC.
        scheeseman486 3y ago
        You can't install anything, only UWP apps that run in an extremely restrictive sandbox. You can get root on Steam Deck by switching to Desktop mode, opening the terminal and inputting a couple commands and you have full access to the hardware's bootloader.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      The first Xbox was hacked wide open, but that was in spite of Microsoft. Lots of good stuff there, too. XBMC for life!
      - sfRattan 3y ago
        XBMC and all the wacky homebrew software extended the life of my original Xbox by more than a decade. I still think the linksbox browser did alphabet input better than any other controller software I've seen. And it was always fun in college to host a Mario Kart 64 night (emulated on Xbox) in the dorms and see the expressions on people's faces when they looked from the controllers to the screen, and then back and forth again. :) And I still use 2 original Xboxs at LAN parties here and there. Even with a softmod and Linux, it's still possible to system link Halo, Halo 2, Battlefront (2004), Battlefront 2 (2005), Crimson Skies, Metal Arms, and other games across at least three generations of console (Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One) with 16-to-32 people. Microsoft does backward compatibility like almost no one else, even on console. It's getting harder to find replacement controllers, but I've found a local hardware guy in my city who can help find the right replacement parts as little pieces on the board start to fail. I plan on keeping both of mine running as long as possible!
        scheeseman486 3y ago
        Project Stellar lets you use Xbox One controllers https://makemhz.com/products/stellar https://makemhz.com/products/stellar
amstan 3y ago
Sorry, where are these schematics? I was not aware.
vanchor3 3y ago
> And they provide you parts and schematics in case you need to repair/mod your device. Where are the schematics? I was trying to do a repair on an unusually common failure and couldn't find anything.
- saidinesh5 3y ago
  I am not sure if schematics is the right word, but I meant things like: https://gitlab.steamos.cloud/SteamDeck/hardware https://gitlab.steamos.cloud/SteamDeck/hardware and whatever they provide to likes of https://www.amazon.com/Joystick-Steam-Deck-Hall-Effect-Sensor-Accessories-Electromagnetic-pc/dp/B0C7KBZ63Q/ref=sr_1_6 https://www.amazon.com/Joystick-Steam-Deck-Hall-Effect-Senso... to and steamdeck HD, to make hall effect joysticks and high resolution display mods for steamdeck.
  - vanchor3 3y ago
    Understandable, I was hoping there was some sort of board schematics or even block diagrams to aid in fixing blown up chips and other faults. I most often see failures on the main board and of course that's the part they don't sell you.
    - doikor 3y ago
      While no board schematic there is quite good selection of guides hosted iFixit (Valve links you there from their website so it is the "official" source) https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Steam_Game_Console https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Steam_Game_Console
    - saidinesh5 3y ago
      Out of curiosity, what chips do you see get blown out typically? And are there any specific usage patterns that lead to more of these issues?
      - vanchor3 3y ago
        It most often seems to be the power management/charge/USB-C chip, with no particular pattern other than "playing a demanding game". Doesn't seem to matter whether plugged in or on battery, official charger or other USB-C charger or dock. I even had it happen to my own Steam Deck (while playing Minecraft of all things) which I sent into Valve and they replaced. I haven't been able to investigate it too much but last I looked at the data sheet for that chip it seems like there's no way it should have a hole blown in it unless something was designed wrong.
golergka 3y ago
The already have most of online PC games sales through their platform and take a very healthy chunky cut off it, they don't have any financial incentive to close their platform. I also doubt they sell Steam deck at a loss like console companies do.
- opan 3y ago
  >I also doubt they sell Steam deck at a loss like console companies do. They (GabeN I believe) mentioned early on that it was "painful" to hit the Deck's price point. Unsure if this means sold at a loss or just a smaller-than-ideal profit.
__turbobrew__ 3y ago
Valve isn’t taking some moral high ground here, they are just trying to commoditize hardware and OS platforms. It isn’t a new idea: https://gwern.net/complement https://gwern.net/complement
- saidinesh5 3y ago
  That's an interesting take. Reminds me of when Android came out as free and open alternative to whatever we had back then. I hope Steam OS doesn't end up the same locked down mess that Android has become these days ...
  - tomComb 3y ago
    Pixels have unlocked bootloaders so you can install whatever you want, including completely open source versions of android. You won’t be able to do mobile payment and some other things because the companies behind those other things will only allow their apps to run on locked down devices.
    - saidinesh5 3y ago
      But once you do that, you lose Google Play Safety net attestation no? Happened when i rooted my last phone. And after that no banking/payment apps worked.
      - jonhermansen 3y ago
        Here is a community-maintained list of banking apps that can work without SafetyNet: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... Last time I was looking for a new bank, I picked one from this list based on the reports available. Thankfully my bank app is not so locked down. Hope you can find something that works for you.
ren_engineer 3y ago
Steam fees are their money maker, hardware is just a way to get more people buying stuff on Steam
- Hamuko 3y ago
  And it's absolutely working! So far I've spent 566€ directly on Steam this year and my willingness to spend money on GOG or EGS has dropped dramatically considering what a seamless experience I get with Steam and the Steam Deck.
  - aquova 3y ago
    Me as well. I've on Linux for years, but there was a time where I was preferring GoG for their DRM-free policy. However, Valve went all in on Linux support while GoG refused to even make a Linux version of their launcher. I still occasionally buy things from them, but Steam gained my business.
    - saidinesh5 3y ago
      Yeah, the cdprojekt/Linux story is a weird one. They even released witcher 2 on Linux. But after all the hate they got , for it being a bad port, using some translation layer, it seems like they dropped the Linux use cases. At least they don't go out of their way to block heroic games launcher/Linux and I'm happy with that.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        It’s much easier and safer for a company to officially not support Linux, but keep an eye on issues and not block it, than to officially release a port.
- andrewmunsell 3y ago
  And it absolutely worked on me. Prior to having a Steam Deck, my overall video game time was fairly low since it took time to boot the PC and start everything up. With the SD, it's much easier to grab it and get a small session in, and I've purchased a number of games (and will even buy games on Steam at a higher price than elsewhere) because of the Deck. It's the price of convenience, but well worth it in my opinion.
rldjbpin 3y ago
albeit in software, but valve got a lot of success built on top of video game mods (see counter-strike and dota series). they are far from saints if you zoom out (from lootboxes and fostering an official means to trade virtual items for money), but being an independent company still driven by gaming helps.

sho_hn 3y ago

Given that PC gaming thrives on modding, it's only right that the most PC-like console gets it right.

erikpukinskis 3y ago
If that were the natural outcome Xbox would’ve “gotten it right” since it was the most PC-like console before the Steam Deck. The moddability is a deliberate strategy by Valve, and I don’t see it as an inevitable move for every PC-centered company, Microsoft being the prime counterexample.
- timw4mail 3y ago
  The XBox One and PS4 are very PC-like as well. (Continuing with the PS5 and XBox Series). But yes, Valve does seem to get what gamers want (other than games made by them)
- amlib 3y ago
  I think it's pretty clear that "PC-like" also means you need an open platform, with the possibility to install any software and operating system you wish, which the xbox nor any console from the major brands allows for.
  - squeaky-clean 3y ago
    Yeah PC means "personal computer", not x64 CPU with an AMD or Nvidia GPU. I don't see how the Xbox is PC-like at all.
    - ewzimm 3y ago
      It’s running Windows, and if you put it in dev mode, which is not much harder than putting a laptop off S mode, you can install anything. It works with a mouse and keyboard. Pretty close to a PC.
      - scheeseman486 3y ago
        You can't install anything, only UWP apps that run in an extremely restrictive sandbox. You can get root on Steam Deck by switching to Desktop mode, opening the terminal and inputting a couple commands and you have full access to the hardware's bootloader.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The first Xbox was hacked wide open, but that was in spite of Microsoft. Lots of good stuff there, too. XBMC for life!
    - sfRattan 3y ago
      XBMC and all the wacky homebrew software extended the life of my original Xbox by more than a decade. I still think the linksbox browser did alphabet input better than any other controller software I've seen. And it was always fun in college to host a Mario Kart 64 night (emulated on Xbox) in the dorms and see the expressions on people's faces when they looked from the controllers to the screen, and then back and forth again. :) And I still use 2 original Xboxs at LAN parties here and there. Even with a softmod and Linux, it's still possible to system link Halo, Halo 2, Battlefront (2004), Battlefront 2 (2005), Crimson Skies, Metal Arms, and other games across at least three generations of console (Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One) with 16-to-32 people. Microsoft does backward compatibility like almost no one else, even on console. It's getting harder to find replacement controllers, but I've found a local hardware guy in my city who can help find the right replacement parts as little pieces on the board start to fail. I plan on keeping both of mine running as long as possible!
      - scheeseman486 3y ago
        Project Stellar lets you use Xbox One controllers https://makemhz.com/products/stellar https://makemhz.com/products/stellar

amstan 3y ago

Sorry, where are these schematics? I was not aware.

vanchor3 3y ago

> And they provide you parts and schematics in case you need to repair/mod your device. Where are the schematics? I was trying to do a repair on an unusually common failure and couldn't find anything.

saidinesh5 3y ago
I am not sure if schematics is the right word, but I meant things like: https://gitlab.steamos.cloud/SteamDeck/hardware https://gitlab.steamos.cloud/SteamDeck/hardware and whatever they provide to likes of https://www.amazon.com/Joystick-Steam-Deck-Hall-Effect-Sensor-Accessories-Electromagnetic-pc/dp/B0C7KBZ63Q/ref=sr_1_6 https://www.amazon.com/Joystick-Steam-Deck-Hall-Effect-Senso... to and steamdeck HD, to make hall effect joysticks and high resolution display mods for steamdeck.
- vanchor3 3y ago
  Understandable, I was hoping there was some sort of board schematics or even block diagrams to aid in fixing blown up chips and other faults. I most often see failures on the main board and of course that's the part they don't sell you.
  - doikor 3y ago
    While no board schematic there is quite good selection of guides hosted iFixit (Valve links you there from their website so it is the "official" source) https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Steam_Game_Console https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Steam_Game_Console
  - saidinesh5 3y ago
    Out of curiosity, what chips do you see get blown out typically? And are there any specific usage patterns that lead to more of these issues?
    - vanchor3 3y ago
      It most often seems to be the power management/charge/USB-C chip, with no particular pattern other than "playing a demanding game". Doesn't seem to matter whether plugged in or on battery, official charger or other USB-C charger or dock. I even had it happen to my own Steam Deck (while playing Minecraft of all things) which I sent into Valve and they replaced. I haven't been able to investigate it too much but last I looked at the data sheet for that chip it seems like there's no way it should have a hole blown in it unless something was designed wrong.

golergka 3y ago

The already have most of online PC games sales through their platform and take a very healthy chunky cut off it, they don't have any financial incentive to close their platform. I also doubt they sell Steam deck at a loss like console companies do.

opan 3y ago
>I also doubt they sell Steam deck at a loss like console companies do. They (GabeN I believe) mentioned early on that it was "painful" to hit the Deck's price point. Unsure if this means sold at a loss or just a smaller-than-ideal profit.

__turbobrew__ 3y ago

Valve isn’t taking some moral high ground here, they are just trying to commoditize hardware and OS platforms. It isn’t a new idea: https://gwern.net/complement https://gwern.net/complement

saidinesh5 3y ago
That's an interesting take. Reminds me of when Android came out as free and open alternative to whatever we had back then. I hope Steam OS doesn't end up the same locked down mess that Android has become these days ...
- tomComb 3y ago
  Pixels have unlocked bootloaders so you can install whatever you want, including completely open source versions of android. You won’t be able to do mobile payment and some other things because the companies behind those other things will only allow their apps to run on locked down devices.
  - saidinesh5 3y ago
    But once you do that, you lose Google Play Safety net attestation no? Happened when i rooted my last phone. And after that no banking/payment apps worked.
    - jonhermansen 3y ago
      Here is a community-maintained list of banking apps that can work without SafetyNet: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... Last time I was looking for a new bank, I picked one from this list based on the reports available. Thankfully my bank app is not so locked down. Hope you can find something that works for you.

ren_engineer 3y ago

Steam fees are their money maker, hardware is just a way to get more people buying stuff on Steam

Hamuko 3y ago
And it's absolutely working! So far I've spent 566€ directly on Steam this year and my willingness to spend money on GOG or EGS has dropped dramatically considering what a seamless experience I get with Steam and the Steam Deck.
- aquova 3y ago
  Me as well. I've on Linux for years, but there was a time where I was preferring GoG for their DRM-free policy. However, Valve went all in on Linux support while GoG refused to even make a Linux version of their launcher. I still occasionally buy things from them, but Steam gained my business.
  - saidinesh5 3y ago
    Yeah, the cdprojekt/Linux story is a weird one. They even released witcher 2 on Linux. But after all the hate they got , for it being a bad port, using some translation layer, it seems like they dropped the Linux use cases. At least they don't go out of their way to block heroic games launcher/Linux and I'm happy with that.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      It’s much easier and safer for a company to officially not support Linux, but keep an eye on issues and not block it, than to officially release a port.
andrewmunsell 3y ago
And it absolutely worked on me. Prior to having a Steam Deck, my overall video game time was fairly low since it took time to boot the PC and start everything up. With the SD, it's much easier to grab it and get a small session in, and I've purchased a number of games (and will even buy games on Steam at a higher price than elsewhere) because of the Deck. It's the price of convenience, but well worth it in my opinion.

rldjbpin 3y ago

albeit in software, but valve got a lot of success built on top of video game mods (see counter-strike and dota series). they are far from saints if you zoom out (from lootboxes and fostering an official means to trade virtual items for money), but being an independent company still driven by gaming helps.