6 ms·

I am mildly tempted to upgrade to this, it seems kinda weird that the OLED is the same resolution? Doesn't it? Maybe I am just out of touch. But I guess at leas

I am mildly tempted to upgrade to this, it seems kinda weird that the OLED is the same resolution? Doesn't it? Maybe I am just out of touch. But I guess at least that means it won't have a performance impact. As much as I love my steam deck, it kinda sucks to use after using my OLED Switch after a while. That screen is just beautiful (especially for Mario Wonder). I have been looking for alternatives for a while now, with the Asus Rog Ally or the Legion Go but the lack of the 4 back controls being vertical have made both of those a no go for me. Kinda wish it was beefed up a little bit (technically it looks like it is, the GPU is no longer listed as a range if you scroll down, but I am not sure why that is). I just want official word that the drivers and everything still work on Windows. I assume it will

izacus 3y ago
They deliberately said they don't want to change performance characteristics - which is pretty normal for console refreshes.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  TBH I don't buy that argument, we are talking about PC games that have handled scaling for a very long time. This is standard if you are making PC games. The Steam Deck really isn't a console in any traditional sense of the word. With there now being multiple devices like this out there, I don't think that argument works.
  - titaniumtown 3y ago
    Valve wants the Steam Deck to fit in the Console space and be a easy gateway for less-techy people to play PC games.
    - nerdjon 3y ago
      But I have yet to see any indication from a development standpoint that it is. PC games already automatically figure out what specs to use (or at least many do) so I am still struggling with this argument. The argument completely falls apart when you have devices like the Asus Rog Ally or the Legion GO. It also falls apart when, unless I am mistaken, SteamOS is open for anyone to use on other devices.
      - enragedcacti 3y ago
        A single performance target means devs can fairly easily make tweaks and fixes to get "Verified Compatible" with Steam Deck which means more games work on ALL steam decks and its easier for casual consumers to just pick it up, buy some games, and have a good experience without knowing anything about PC gaming. The Ally and the Legion GO (and other power constrained devices/devices with APUs) will benefit from some devs' performance and power optimizations for steam deck, and SteamOS based devices will benefit from fixes that work around issues with proton, both of which would be less likely to be addressed if there weren't an entire market of consumers you can access by getting that "Verified" badge.
        nerdjon 3y ago
        > The Ally and the Legion GO (and other power constrained devices/devices with APUs) will benefit from some devs' performance and power optimizations for steam deck, and SteamOS based devices will benefit from fixes that work around issues with proton, both of which would be less likely to be addressed if there weren't an entire market of consumers you can access by getting that "Verified" badge IF that is the case, then the argument for why they would not increase the performance is not valid. They could have kept the same resolution but made it more powerful. You can't say other devices will benefit and still make the argument that the steam deck had to stay at the same performance level. It's one or the other. It's perfectly fine that Valve didn't want to upgrade it but I just don't buy the argument.
        enragedcacti 3y ago
        It's not one or the other because the concern isn't for the owners of the new Deck, its for the owners of the old one. Any meaningful increase in power will create a scenario where the new deck can play games that the old one cannot which would be confusing for consumers and would weaken developer incentives to create a good experience on the older deck. When you factor in that the niche market of slightly more powerful $600+ handhelds is already served by 4+ different players I just don't see why Valve would need to jump into it at this point. The marginal benefit is not worth the risk of fracturing the deck community and burning early adopters. Also I should have made it more clear, but only some patches targeting the steam deck will trickle up to higher performance devices. Some patches will be things like "low shadows look like crap but medium shadows are just barely too much for the deck, lets lower medium a bit so that it can run well". I only mention that some patches will help other mobile devices because in my view its a win-win for the entire market that Valve is committed to providing a common denominator.
  - delecti 3y ago
    On the contrary, I'd say that the Steam Deck has a lot in common with consoles, especially as modern consoles (PS5 and XSX) converge with PCs. The Steam Deck comes with a store integrated into the frontend, a verification process, and standardized controls and performance targets. It's basically a "pre-jailbroken" console. At the same time, the XBox Series S is showing a big reason why Valve might want to keep a single performance target for a longer than the normal constantly evolving hardware in PCs, and both it and the PS5 digital have removed any sort of physical distribution aspect to the definition of consoles.
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      >especially as modern consoles (PS5 and XSX) converge with PCs. What makes you think this is true?
      - delecti 3y ago
        I suppose I should clarify that I don't think they're likely to fully converge, at least not in the next decade (through the PS6 and whatever nonsense Microsoft calls their next iteration). But it's increasingly similar hardware inside, consoles are increasingly supporting more general purpose computing (media apps, social networking features, web browsing, game/app stores), the experience is more customizable, patching has made it much less "the game is the game", and the stupid simple reliability has gotten much less stupid simple. I'd say that the distance between PCs and consoles has been gradually shrinking since probably the release of the PS3/360, mostly due to consoles moving closer to PCs, but the Steam Deck is a big jump towards a PC being console-y.
        charcircuit 3y ago
        So you would say that phones are becoming PCs too? Your definition is not what most people think when they hear the word PC.
        delecti 3y ago
        They absolutely are in lots of ways. Phones are too small to be convenient PCs, but there's not much left they can't do these days. If you look at the spectrum from phones, to phone-OS tablets (ipads or android tablets), to PC-OS tablets, to laptops, it's really not a solid line you can draw where things are dramatically different. The main difference is that the UX isn't designed to be good at being a PC.
  - Arainach 3y ago
    Sure, but changing the resolution and changing the scaling means changing the performance metrics. If one device is 1080p and one is 2160p, then even if both "render" at 1080 and one scales up to 2160 that is a change in performance. They don't want developers to have to test on multiple devices to see if it gets laggy on the one with the higher-res screen.
- userinanother 3y ago
  I’m still waiting for performance gen 2 to come out. I think that’s going to be the sweet spot
angryasian 3y ago
>I just want official word that the drivers and everything still work on Windows. I thought steam deck doesn't run windows ? You install windows on your steam deck ?
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Yeah you can dual boot Windows and there are official drivers for it. It is the primary way I use my steam deck.
- titaniumtown 3y ago
  It runs a version of Arch Linux called SteamOS. I don't see a reason for Windows to run on it.
  - breakfastduck 3y ago
    Some games have anti cheat that only work on Windows.
    - interroboink 3y ago
      I thought Steam Deck used Proton, which allowed that stuff to mostly work without modification, even when running on Linux? (basically Wine+extras)
      - rpmisms 3y ago
        Anti-cheat is usually a kernel extension, I don't think you can do that in Proton. Edit: yes, I know EAC is Linux supported, but you can't use proton to run a Windows kernel extension.
        TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        Proton has some support for easy anti cheat. https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/02/proton-7-easy-anti-cheat-improvements-more-games-for-linux-a-steam-deck/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/02/proton-7-easy-anti-che...
giobox 3y ago
> it seems kinda weird that the OLED is the same resolution? Given the specifications of the rest of the device, I'm extremely happy the resolution remained the same! A bump to 1080p or similar would make games on the limited CPU/GPU that much harder to run at a reasonable frame rate while keeping a sharp image. This does not strike me as weird in the slightest - it's common sense to do here. Not to mention how much hotter the device would run - you would be spending much more time at 15w+ in many titles, which is where the Deck starts to get hot/noisy fans spinning, and of course battery life drops.
- ThatPlayer 3y ago
  I don't think it's as big a deal with Steam Deck using gamescope and system-wide FSR to upscale the image. It's already used if you plug a Deck into a 4k TV: the game defaults to running at 720p still. With newer games having decoupled 3D render resolution and FSR2, a bump in output resolution no longer means an increase in CPU/GPU required. While allowing older games that aren't as resource intensive to run at 1080p.
  - badsectoracula 3y ago
    For me it'd be a big deal as FSR1 looks awful and FSR2 looks bad - the whole "decoupling render resolution from output resolution" is a delusion for trying to push current GPUs to do things they are not really capable of doing. In 10 years we'll be looking back and make fun of how smeary, ghosty and blurry everything was.
    - ThatPlayer 3y ago
      > trying to push current GPUs to do things they are not really capable of doing Sure, but until we get better GPUs, it's still the better solution to not being able to play it at all. Especially with the Steam Deck being battery powered, so you can't just brute force it with higher frequencies or more hardware. Even this new Steam Deck doesn't include a better GPU.
      - 3y ago
Steltek 3y ago
Seems like the back buttons are a worthy tradeoff if you're looking for a Windows-based handheld. The Ally is faster and has some nifty tricks but Windows holds it back, compared to the snappy, polished feel of the Deck.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  For me it is not, I use my Steam Deck has a way to carry the games that I play with a controller on my PC or Console... mobile. I use an Elite Xbox Controller and rely heavily on the back buttons. TBH I don't think Windows holds it back when once I am in the game (the part that matters) the experience is the same.
  - sangnoir 3y ago
    > TBH I don't think Windows holds it back when once I am in the game (the part that matters) Being able to instantaneously[1] pause and resume games on the Steam deck makes for a pretty great experience. The non-gaming parts also matter a lot in a portable gaming device. 1. In 3 seconds or less

izacus 3y ago

They deliberately said they don't want to change performance characteristics - which is pretty normal for console refreshes.

nerdjon 3y ago
TBH I don't buy that argument, we are talking about PC games that have handled scaling for a very long time. This is standard if you are making PC games. The Steam Deck really isn't a console in any traditional sense of the word. With there now being multiple devices like this out there, I don't think that argument works.
- titaniumtown 3y ago
  Valve wants the Steam Deck to fit in the Console space and be a easy gateway for less-techy people to play PC games.
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    But I have yet to see any indication from a development standpoint that it is. PC games already automatically figure out what specs to use (or at least many do) so I am still struggling with this argument. The argument completely falls apart when you have devices like the Asus Rog Ally or the Legion GO. It also falls apart when, unless I am mistaken, SteamOS is open for anyone to use on other devices.
    - enragedcacti 3y ago
      A single performance target means devs can fairly easily make tweaks and fixes to get "Verified Compatible" with Steam Deck which means more games work on ALL steam decks and its easier for casual consumers to just pick it up, buy some games, and have a good experience without knowing anything about PC gaming. The Ally and the Legion GO (and other power constrained devices/devices with APUs) will benefit from some devs' performance and power optimizations for steam deck, and SteamOS based devices will benefit from fixes that work around issues with proton, both of which would be less likely to be addressed if there weren't an entire market of consumers you can access by getting that "Verified" badge.
      - nerdjon 3y ago
        > The Ally and the Legion GO (and other power constrained devices/devices with APUs) will benefit from some devs' performance and power optimizations for steam deck, and SteamOS based devices will benefit from fixes that work around issues with proton, both of which would be less likely to be addressed if there weren't an entire market of consumers you can access by getting that "Verified" badge IF that is the case, then the argument for why they would not increase the performance is not valid. They could have kept the same resolution but made it more powerful. You can't say other devices will benefit and still make the argument that the steam deck had to stay at the same performance level. It's one or the other. It's perfectly fine that Valve didn't want to upgrade it but I just don't buy the argument.
        enragedcacti 3y ago
        It's not one or the other because the concern isn't for the owners of the new Deck, its for the owners of the old one. Any meaningful increase in power will create a scenario where the new deck can play games that the old one cannot which would be confusing for consumers and would weaken developer incentives to create a good experience on the older deck. When you factor in that the niche market of slightly more powerful $600+ handhelds is already served by 4+ different players I just don't see why Valve would need to jump into it at this point. The marginal benefit is not worth the risk of fracturing the deck community and burning early adopters. Also I should have made it more clear, but only some patches targeting the steam deck will trickle up to higher performance devices. Some patches will be things like "low shadows look like crap but medium shadows are just barely too much for the deck, lets lower medium a bit so that it can run well". I only mention that some patches will help other mobile devices because in my view its a win-win for the entire market that Valve is committed to providing a common denominator.
- delecti 3y ago
  On the contrary, I'd say that the Steam Deck has a lot in common with consoles, especially as modern consoles (PS5 and XSX) converge with PCs. The Steam Deck comes with a store integrated into the frontend, a verification process, and standardized controls and performance targets. It's basically a "pre-jailbroken" console. At the same time, the XBox Series S is showing a big reason why Valve might want to keep a single performance target for a longer than the normal constantly evolving hardware in PCs, and both it and the PS5 digital have removed any sort of physical distribution aspect to the definition of consoles.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >especially as modern consoles (PS5 and XSX) converge with PCs. What makes you think this is true?
    - delecti 3y ago
      I suppose I should clarify that I don't think they're likely to fully converge, at least not in the next decade (through the PS6 and whatever nonsense Microsoft calls their next iteration). But it's increasingly similar hardware inside, consoles are increasingly supporting more general purpose computing (media apps, social networking features, web browsing, game/app stores), the experience is more customizable, patching has made it much less "the game is the game", and the stupid simple reliability has gotten much less stupid simple. I'd say that the distance between PCs and consoles has been gradually shrinking since probably the release of the PS3/360, mostly due to consoles moving closer to PCs, but the Steam Deck is a big jump towards a PC being console-y.
      - charcircuit 3y ago
        So you would say that phones are becoming PCs too? Your definition is not what most people think when they hear the word PC.
        delecti 3y ago
        They absolutely are in lots of ways. Phones are too small to be convenient PCs, but there's not much left they can't do these days. If you look at the spectrum from phones, to phone-OS tablets (ipads or android tablets), to PC-OS tablets, to laptops, it's really not a solid line you can draw where things are dramatically different. The main difference is that the UX isn't designed to be good at being a PC.
- Arainach 3y ago
  Sure, but changing the resolution and changing the scaling means changing the performance metrics. If one device is 1080p and one is 2160p, then even if both "render" at 1080 and one scales up to 2160 that is a change in performance. They don't want developers to have to test on multiple devices to see if it gets laggy on the one with the higher-res screen.
userinanother 3y ago
I’m still waiting for performance gen 2 to come out. I think that’s going to be the sweet spot

angryasian 3y ago

>I just want official word that the drivers and everything still work on Windows. I thought steam deck doesn't run windows ? You install windows on your steam deck ?

nerdjon 3y ago
Yeah you can dual boot Windows and there are official drivers for it. It is the primary way I use my steam deck.
titaniumtown 3y ago
It runs a version of Arch Linux called SteamOS. I don't see a reason for Windows to run on it.
- breakfastduck 3y ago
  Some games have anti cheat that only work on Windows.
  - interroboink 3y ago
    I thought Steam Deck used Proton, which allowed that stuff to mostly work without modification, even when running on Linux? (basically Wine+extras)
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      Anti-cheat is usually a kernel extension, I don't think you can do that in Proton. Edit: yes, I know EAC is Linux supported, but you can't use proton to run a Windows kernel extension.
      - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        Proton has some support for easy anti cheat. https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/02/proton-7-easy-anti-cheat-improvements-more-games-for-linux-a-steam-deck/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/02/proton-7-easy-anti-che...

giobox 3y ago

> it seems kinda weird that the OLED is the same resolution? Given the specifications of the rest of the device, I'm extremely happy the resolution remained the same! A bump to 1080p or similar would make games on the limited CPU/GPU that much harder to run at a reasonable frame rate while keeping a sharp image. This does not strike me as weird in the slightest - it's common sense to do here. Not to mention how much hotter the device would run - you would be spending much more time at 15w+ in many titles, which is where the Deck starts to get hot/noisy fans spinning, and of course battery life drops.

ThatPlayer 3y ago
I don't think it's as big a deal with Steam Deck using gamescope and system-wide FSR to upscale the image. It's already used if you plug a Deck into a 4k TV: the game defaults to running at 720p still. With newer games having decoupled 3D render resolution and FSR2, a bump in output resolution no longer means an increase in CPU/GPU required. While allowing older games that aren't as resource intensive to run at 1080p.
- badsectoracula 3y ago
  For me it'd be a big deal as FSR1 looks awful and FSR2 looks bad - the whole "decoupling render resolution from output resolution" is a delusion for trying to push current GPUs to do things they are not really capable of doing. In 10 years we'll be looking back and make fun of how smeary, ghosty and blurry everything was.
  - ThatPlayer 3y ago
    > trying to push current GPUs to do things they are not really capable of doing Sure, but until we get better GPUs, it's still the better solution to not being able to play it at all. Especially with the Steam Deck being battery powered, so you can't just brute force it with higher frequencies or more hardware. Even this new Steam Deck doesn't include a better GPU.
    - 3y ago

Steltek 3y ago

Seems like the back buttons are a worthy tradeoff if you're looking for a Windows-based handheld. The Ally is faster and has some nifty tricks but Windows holds it back, compared to the snappy, polished feel of the Deck.

nerdjon 3y ago
For me it is not, I use my Steam Deck has a way to carry the games that I play with a controller on my PC or Console... mobile. I use an Elite Xbox Controller and rely heavily on the back buttons. TBH I don't think Windows holds it back when once I am in the game (the part that matters) the experience is the same.
- sangnoir 3y ago
  > TBH I don't think Windows holds it back when once I am in the game (the part that matters) Being able to instantaneously[1] pause and resume games on the Steam deck makes for a pretty great experience. The non-gaming parts also matter a lot in a portable gaming device. 1. In 3 seconds or less