4 ms·

Microsoft removes survey that forced you to answer why you're closing OneDrive

23 points by ourmandave 3y ago

beebeepka 3y ago
I liked the other one better- "Microsoft won’t let you close OneDrive on Windows until you explain yourself" Very nice. I was told about this pattern when I was working on a web RTS. I was explained to me that many of the web "games" at the time would offer you virtual currency/gems/whatever when you try to leave. I find it all very classy. I really should force my wife off windows. Her next laptop is going to run Linux no matter what. Even a Mac would be an improvement but sane configurations start at like 2000 euro.
- gymbeaux 3y ago
  Linux is great but Linux with desktop is rather buggy. Even GNOME and KDE are rife with bugs (depending on your hardware somewhat). Then there are the quality of life improvements like that window layout system in Windows 11 that beats anything on Linux for ultrawide monitors (KDE has something similar but it’s not quite as seamless/fancy). Overclocking monitors is basically impossible on Linux (all of the “try this” answers on StackExchange and elsewhere don’t work anymore). I guess there are people who don’t care about stuff like that but for people like me, it’s hard to ditch Windows.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    It's not as buggy as you're making it sound. You can keep using Windows all you want. Due to one little edge case. Fine. I'd rather use the buggiest, shittiest window manager than put up with the user-hostility, the ads, the shit that gets installed without my permission, the settings that get changed back to Microsoft's defaults, these fucking surveys, the deception, lies and trickery.
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      See from my point of view you are being unfair to Windows. Brass tacks- both kind of suck for desktop usage.
  - firebaze 3y ago
    I don't know anyone, including my 78yo father, who regretted switching to Linux (PopOS mostly) from Windows. Ironically, the hardest part was teaching my father to just use MS 365 instead of looking for the installed MS Word. On the other hand, anyone I know still using Windows is using it for gaming. And that includes professional developers, hobbyists, and students. Saying this as a long time (~10y) Windows developer. Switched to MacOS / Linux around 5 years ago, wife and family using Linux or iPad.
    - hammyhavoc 3y ago
      Plenty of folks using Windows for audio, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck these days.
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      I have issues with all three ecosystems. I’ve listed them in a previous comment on HN but macOS off the top of the noggin: no longer supports display scaling on 1440p displays; Night Shift doesn’t work on DisplayLink displays; can’t adjust volume on external displays’ speakers. Dumb.
  - brnt 3y ago
    Ive been using KDE 5 for a decade now and I don't know what you mean by buggy, after soms growong pains in 2013 I don't recall a single bug since then.
  - deafpolygon 3y ago
    > Even GNOME and KDE are rife with bugs (depending on your hardware somewhat). Even though you'll have diehards that claim they haven't had any issues since X year. When I had KDE installed at the start of the year, I had bugs dealing with multiple monitors (apps wouldn't remember position if I had closed them on any monitor other than the left-most monitor). I had the UI crash repeatedly, issues transferring files using Dolphin (it would just simply hang on >500 files or if the files were large - it was fine if I used GNOME's file manager or the shell). I had slight issues getting wallpaper settings to stick. Shortcuts wouldn't always fire depending on how they were configured. The list goes on. I firmly believe that the folks who don't have an issue with KDE are just exhibiting forms of Stockholm syndrome or have worked around issues automatically (forgetting that they exist). When you see issues crop up when users are switching, and you aren't having those issues- maybe the issue is that you've created a mental model that effectively works around those issues without you realizing it. The solution isn't to blame the users having issues; rather, it's to take a hard look at what the problem is and realize maybe there is a real problem here.
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      My KDE (and sometimes GNOME) issues are mostly to do with scaling. If you use KDE or GNOME with a single, 1920x1080p display and AMD or Intel GPU, I doubt you’ll really have any issues.
spicymaki 3y ago
Random thoughts: This is a zero win situation. Customers do not want telemetry on their system, so they tell Microsoft not to monitor user behavior. If Microsoft asks customers why they did something unexpected (like close OneDrive), people get upset that they are being surveyed. They do use focus-groups to get an idea of what users want, but I believe that the feedback is too course grained (low expertise and low sample size) and can be expensive to run. Linux/Opensource seems to approach this differently, they provide you with multiple solutions and you try to figure out which one suits you best. However the community backlash (or the effort needed) for changing something can be high, so many projects tend to be conservative. The project stagnates and then gets forked, by someone who wants the change (scratching an itch). However, this leads to a lack of cohesion which can make the software burdensome to use.
- wtallis 3y ago
  > if Microsoft asks customers why they did something unexpected (like close OneDrive) That's not unexpected.
pests 3y ago
I have managed to use Windows 11 since release without any of this harassment people keep posting about. Maybe because I never logged in with a Microsoft account? OneDrive doesn't harass me or pop up anything. I forget it's installed half the time until I see the empty folder in the explorer tree view. I don't see ads in my start menu or desktop. Windows has been a pretty consistent experience from about 7 on up for me.
- m463 3y ago
  > Maybe because I never logged in with a Microsoft account? did you do the workaround to have a local user?
  - pests 3y ago
    I set this up originally on Windows 10 and I don't think it needed a workaround then to create a local user. I upgraded to 11 and it never forced me either. Just tried to open OneDrive to make sure I wasn't secretly signed in or something - nope, "OneDrive isn't signed in" popup.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Am I right in thinking that folks with a "digital license" from the Microsoft Store are forced into using a Microsoft account, short of buying a key from another vendor?
- goosedragons 3y ago
  With a Microsoft account it will immediately start having OneDrive sync Documents, Desktop and some other things. There doesn't seem to be a toggle to turn this off completely either, at least that I could find. You have to do it every install. I find Desktop syncing insanely annoying. Why would I want shortcuts synced across computers for programs I don't have installed? Do you still have the widgets thing? By default it's a button on the taskbar and with a touch screen it's a left swipe. It's insanely easy to trigger on a tablet and you can't just disable that, just all gestures. That thing is loaded with ads.
  - 3y ago

23 points by ourmandave 3y ago

I liked the other one better- "Microsoft won’t let you close OneDrive on Windows until you explain yourself" Very nice. I was told about this pattern when I was working on a web RTS. I was explained to me that many of the web "games" at the time would offer you virtual currency/gems/whatever when you try to leave. I find it all very classy. I really should force my wife off windows. Her next laptop is going to run Linux no matter what. Even a Mac would be an improvement but sane configurations start at like 2000 euro.

gymbeaux 3y ago
Linux is great but Linux with desktop is rather buggy. Even GNOME and KDE are rife with bugs (depending on your hardware somewhat). Then there are the quality of life improvements like that window layout system in Windows 11 that beats anything on Linux for ultrawide monitors (KDE has something similar but it’s not quite as seamless/fancy). Overclocking monitors is basically impossible on Linux (all of the “try this” answers on StackExchange and elsewhere don’t work anymore). I guess there are people who don’t care about stuff like that but for people like me, it’s hard to ditch Windows.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- olyjohn 3y ago
  It's not as buggy as you're making it sound. You can keep using Windows all you want. Due to one little edge case. Fine. I'd rather use the buggiest, shittiest window manager than put up with the user-hostility, the ads, the shit that gets installed without my permission, the settings that get changed back to Microsoft's defaults, these fucking surveys, the deception, lies and trickery.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    See from my point of view you are being unfair to Windows. Brass tacks- both kind of suck for desktop usage.
- firebaze 3y ago
  I don't know anyone, including my 78yo father, who regretted switching to Linux (PopOS mostly) from Windows. Ironically, the hardest part was teaching my father to just use MS 365 instead of looking for the installed MS Word. On the other hand, anyone I know still using Windows is using it for gaming. And that includes professional developers, hobbyists, and students. Saying this as a long time (~10y) Windows developer. Switched to MacOS / Linux around 5 years ago, wife and family using Linux or iPad.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Plenty of folks using Windows for audio, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck these days.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    I have issues with all three ecosystems. I’ve listed them in a previous comment on HN but macOS off the top of the noggin: no longer supports display scaling on 1440p displays; Night Shift doesn’t work on DisplayLink displays; can’t adjust volume on external displays’ speakers. Dumb.
- brnt 3y ago
  Ive been using KDE 5 for a decade now and I don't know what you mean by buggy, after soms growong pains in 2013 I don't recall a single bug since then.
- deafpolygon 3y ago
  > Even GNOME and KDE are rife with bugs (depending on your hardware somewhat). Even though you'll have diehards that claim they haven't had any issues since X year. When I had KDE installed at the start of the year, I had bugs dealing with multiple monitors (apps wouldn't remember position if I had closed them on any monitor other than the left-most monitor). I had the UI crash repeatedly, issues transferring files using Dolphin (it would just simply hang on >500 files or if the files were large - it was fine if I used GNOME's file manager or the shell). I had slight issues getting wallpaper settings to stick. Shortcuts wouldn't always fire depending on how they were configured. The list goes on. I firmly believe that the folks who don't have an issue with KDE are just exhibiting forms of Stockholm syndrome or have worked around issues automatically (forgetting that they exist). When you see issues crop up when users are switching, and you aren't having those issues- maybe the issue is that you've created a mental model that effectively works around those issues without you realizing it. The solution isn't to blame the users having issues; rather, it's to take a hard look at what the problem is and realize maybe there is a real problem here.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    My KDE (and sometimes GNOME) issues are mostly to do with scaling. If you use KDE or GNOME with a single, 1920x1080p display and AMD or Intel GPU, I doubt you’ll really have any issues.

spicymaki 3y ago

Random thoughts: This is a zero win situation. Customers do not want telemetry on their system, so they tell Microsoft not to monitor user behavior. If Microsoft asks customers why they did something unexpected (like close OneDrive), people get upset that they are being surveyed. They do use focus-groups to get an idea of what users want, but I believe that the feedback is too course grained (low expertise and low sample size) and can be expensive to run. Linux/Opensource seems to approach this differently, they provide you with multiple solutions and you try to figure out which one suits you best. However the community backlash (or the effort needed) for changing something can be high, so many projects tend to be conservative. The project stagnates and then gets forked, by someone who wants the change (scratching an itch). However, this leads to a lack of cohesion which can make the software burdensome to use.

wtallis 3y ago
> if Microsoft asks customers why they did something unexpected (like close OneDrive) That's not unexpected.

pests 3y ago

I have managed to use Windows 11 since release without any of this harassment people keep posting about. Maybe because I never logged in with a Microsoft account? OneDrive doesn't harass me or pop up anything. I forget it's installed half the time until I see the empty folder in the explorer tree view. I don't see ads in my start menu or desktop. Windows has been a pretty consistent experience from about 7 on up for me.

m463 3y ago
> Maybe because I never logged in with a Microsoft account? did you do the workaround to have a local user?
- pests 3y ago
  I set this up originally on Windows 10 and I don't think it needed a workaround then to create a local user. I upgraded to 11 and it never forced me either. Just tried to open OneDrive to make sure I wasn't secretly signed in or something - nope, "OneDrive isn't signed in" popup.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Am I right in thinking that folks with a "digital license" from the Microsoft Store are forced into using a Microsoft account, short of buying a key from another vendor?
goosedragons 3y ago
With a Microsoft account it will immediately start having OneDrive sync Documents, Desktop and some other things. There doesn't seem to be a toggle to turn this off completely either, at least that I could find. You have to do it every install. I find Desktop syncing insanely annoying. Why would I want shortcuts synced across computers for programs I don't have installed? Do you still have the widgets thing? By default it's a button on the taskbar and with a touch screen it's a left swipe. It's insanely easy to trigger on a tablet and you can't just disable that, just all gestures. That thing is loaded with ads.
- 3y ago