5 ms·

I think a lot of it does come down to scale. Imagine the challenge of being a teacher tasked with teaching (science/english/math/etc) to 150-200 unique kids per

by reidjs 3y ago

I think a lot of it does come down to scale. Imagine the challenge of being a teacher tasked with teaching (science/english/math/etc) to 150-200 unique kids per day, often with little to no budget or support from admin, parents, etc. Unless you are truly exceptional at teaching, you have to teach to the middle to compensate, or your class will tear itself apart.

bobthepanda 3y ago
Also in the US the incentives for going into teaching are totally wrong. We should train the best and brightest so that our kids learn from them, but the salaries and working conditions are so bad that it actively discourages people.
- AvocadoPanic 3y ago
  What's the advantage to having the best and brightest teachers if they're in a room of average and dim students? Both teachers and students should be tracked by ability. Best teachers for the best students. Mid teachers for mid students.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    that assumes that average and dim are constants and unchangeable. but the point remains is that we're not even getting the best teachers to begin with, because the job is so unattractive if it's not your passion.
    - AvocadoPanic 3y ago
      Average and dim usually seem pretty fixed by adulthood. Were teachers better in previous generations? I remember the majority of mine being excellent. Might it be more unattractive now than 30 - 40 years ago?
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        People are not going into the public school system during adulthood. Inflation-adjusted average teachers salaries have fallen over the past decade, and starting salaries are at the lowest levels measured: https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/average-teacher-salary-lower-today-ten-years-ago-nea-report-finds https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/average-teac... A lot of teachers in the US now work two jobs to make ends meet, which is a recipe for disaster.
        AvocadoPanic 3y ago
        No they don't enter public school during adulthood, but if none of the interventions move the needle by the time their adults, what's the point? Have inflation-adjusted salaries for other industries? They're not great either. Look at average attorney starting salaries.
  - vorpalhex 3y ago
    The best students may actually be fine with no teacher or a very hands off method. The students struggling the most may require the best teacher (and useful administration).
    - AvocadoPanic 3y ago
      Because that's the system that built the modern world? Send the best and brightest to thow themselves against the dull and dim because the best students will be fine with no teacher. The best and brightest should be challenged and pushed to excel at academicly rigorous programs. The dim and dull should managed through a course of study that has more achievable standards.
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
You are correct. But, as a teacher myself, it doesn't matter if you are good or bad as a teacher, you can't give every student what they need to best excel. Everything you do is a tradeoff that helps certain types of students, and others not so much. Perhaps make some disinterested in the topic. As a teacher or institute, you decide on a teaching philosophy, which then determines your tradeoffs in practice. And you live with the result. This is no different from, as many on this forum will understand, writing software for a certain type of user. Changing the UI or featureset will tradeoff the type of users interested in your software. You can't satisfy everyone.

by reidjs 3y ago

bobthepanda 3y ago

Also in the US the incentives for going into teaching are totally wrong. We should train the best and brightest so that our kids learn from them, but the salaries and working conditions are so bad that it actively discourages people.

AvocadoPanic 3y ago
What's the advantage to having the best and brightest teachers if they're in a room of average and dim students? Both teachers and students should be tracked by ability. Best teachers for the best students. Mid teachers for mid students.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  that assumes that average and dim are constants and unchangeable. but the point remains is that we're not even getting the best teachers to begin with, because the job is so unattractive if it's not your passion.
  - AvocadoPanic 3y ago
    Average and dim usually seem pretty fixed by adulthood. Were teachers better in previous generations? I remember the majority of mine being excellent. Might it be more unattractive now than 30 - 40 years ago?
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      People are not going into the public school system during adulthood. Inflation-adjusted average teachers salaries have fallen over the past decade, and starting salaries are at the lowest levels measured: https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/average-teacher-salary-lower-today-ten-years-ago-nea-report-finds https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/average-teac... A lot of teachers in the US now work two jobs to make ends meet, which is a recipe for disaster.
      - AvocadoPanic 3y ago
        No they don't enter public school during adulthood, but if none of the interventions move the needle by the time their adults, what's the point? Have inflation-adjusted salaries for other industries? They're not great either. Look at average attorney starting salaries.
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  The best students may actually be fine with no teacher or a very hands off method. The students struggling the most may require the best teacher (and useful administration).
  - AvocadoPanic 3y ago
    Because that's the system that built the modern world? Send the best and brightest to thow themselves against the dull and dim because the best students will be fine with no teacher. The best and brightest should be challenged and pushed to excel at academicly rigorous programs. The dim and dull should managed through a course of study that has more achievable standards.

abdullahkhalids 3y ago

You are correct. But, as a teacher myself, it doesn't matter if you are good or bad as a teacher, you can't give every student what they need to best excel. Everything you do is a tradeoff that helps certain types of students, and others not so much. Perhaps make some disinterested in the topic. As a teacher or institute, you decide on a teaching philosophy, which then determines your tradeoffs in practice. And you live with the result. This is no different from, as many on this forum will understand, writing software for a certain type of user. Changing the UI or featureset will tradeoff the type of users interested in your software. You can't satisfy everyone.