3 ms·

I don't even have a reddit account and you initiated ad-hominm when calling me a 12 year old and ironically saying "i don't mean to". But let's drop the silly p

by _8j50 3y ago

I don't even have a reddit account and you initiated ad-hominm when calling me a 12 year old and ironically saying "i don't mean to". But let's drop the silly personal attacks? > You chose to completely ignore my points and misrepresent them If you say so. You literally have chinese police stations in every major eu capital. You have like a dozen countries spying on any major eu country at least at any given time. But "america bad".

Garvi 3y ago
Can I just politely ask you what your primary news sources are?
- _8j50 3y ago
  Sure. Theguardian and the bbc. I opine that news sources outside of a country yet well interested in the events of a country tend to be the most objective. In this case the UK. Al-jazeera is ok but they are very biased in middle eastern events in which the US often is involved.
rijoja 3y ago
Yeah since Europe is supposed to be the same side as the US, which is not the case for China. Perhaps Europe should side with the Russians and Chinese instead since apparently all actors will try to spy on us any way?
- _8j50 3y ago
  That's sort of the point of spying, european countries might as well be on China or Russia's side and they will in turn spy on the US to make sure the US is not subverting things in their own countries. Germany for example has gas pipelines with russia, they would want to know if US intel bombed it at the start of ukraine war or if it was actually russia. Spies are not soldiers, spying is not considered attacking in the same sense as war. It is collecting info so policy makers can make the best decision. And if it so happens EU leaders want to side with russia or china, US intel will know in advance and try to run interference. When trump was elected, UK intel used a retired MI6 agent to publicize the intel they collected on the american citizen and president elect. And the US was grateful.
  - rijoja 3y ago
    Regardless if a spy is to be classified as a soldier or not doesn't change the fact that people will be upset when allies spy on them. Which will make them think that the US is bad. > And if it so happens EU leaders want to side with russia or china, US intel will know in advance and try to run interference. ... and if the US is to interfere with the democratic process of its allies people will think that the US is bad. > And the US was grateful. I bet you there are millions of citizens of the USA who are extremely upset that the US government is trying to circumvent laws made to protect them, by using foreign spy agencies. This also happens to be another reason that millions of people think the US is bad
    - _8j50 3y ago
      > ...doesn't change the fact that people will be upset Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens all the time between most/many allies. We do not live in a nice and peaceful world. > This also happens to be another reason that millions of people think the US is bad People think that because the US leadership and public is willing to criticize themselves and export that attitude along with every other stufd the US exports. France and Russia alone have toppled more regimes in the last few years in africa than the US in the last few decades. Chinese spies in every country basicaly. I mean, let's be a bit candid here, the US CIA does not just work for the US but for NATO and EU's interests as well. All those military bases in europe didn't spontaneously appear. While the US cleans up after colonial europe's mess in the past 70 years, europe developed a moral sense of arrogant superiority. Name me one country the US fought with in its entire history that was not a european former colony? If honesty and self awareness was common europe would celebrate and treasure the CIA and the US for post-war peace, security and prosperity we all enjoy and for every war and chaos averted so far. The glass is half full in this case.
      - rijoja 3y ago
        > We do not live in a nice and peaceful world. Agreed partly because there are nations who backstab their allies by wiretapping their leaders. > People think that because the US leadership and public is willing to criticize themselves and export that attitude along with every other stufd the US exports ? > France and Russia alone have toppled more regimes in the last few years in africa than the US in the last few decades. okay but France is another ally of the US? If we where to compare Russia vs US worldwide since the end of WWII who do you think would lead? > Chinese spies in every country basicaly. I thought that your point was that spies was something we should just learn to accept, and something that we could make us of? Maybe the rest of the world could make use of these spies to make sure that you don't get a president that's not good for you? How would you like that? > While the US cleans up after colonial europe's mess in the past 70 years, europe developed a moral sense of arrogant superiority. Right so all US wars are humanitarian efforts? Where did you learn about this, in a Hollywood movie? > Name me one country the US fought with in its entire history that was not a european former colony? Germany is one. Spain and Italy would be to others, do you need more examples? Not that I understand what point you are trying to make. > I mean, let's be a bit candid here, the US CIA does not just work for the US but for NATO and EU's interests as well. What you think is the EU's interest maybe isn't necessarily what people in the EU think is in their interest. > If honesty and self awareness was common europe would celebrate and treasure the CIA and the US for post-war peace, security and prosperity we all enjoy and for every war and chaos averted so far. The glass is half full in this case. Well it hasn't been peaceful at all?

by _8j50 3y ago

Garvi 3y ago

Can I just politely ask you what your primary news sources are?

_8j50 3y ago
Sure. Theguardian and the bbc. I opine that news sources outside of a country yet well interested in the events of a country tend to be the most objective. In this case the UK. Al-jazeera is ok but they are very biased in middle eastern events in which the US often is involved.

rijoja 3y ago

Yeah since Europe is supposed to be the same side as the US, which is not the case for China. Perhaps Europe should side with the Russians and Chinese instead since apparently all actors will try to spy on us any way?

_8j50 3y ago
That's sort of the point of spying, european countries might as well be on China or Russia's side and they will in turn spy on the US to make sure the US is not subverting things in their own countries. Germany for example has gas pipelines with russia, they would want to know if US intel bombed it at the start of ukraine war or if it was actually russia. Spies are not soldiers, spying is not considered attacking in the same sense as war. It is collecting info so policy makers can make the best decision. And if it so happens EU leaders want to side with russia or china, US intel will know in advance and try to run interference. When trump was elected, UK intel used a retired MI6 agent to publicize the intel they collected on the american citizen and president elect. And the US was grateful.
- rijoja 3y ago
  Regardless if a spy is to be classified as a soldier or not doesn't change the fact that people will be upset when allies spy on them. Which will make them think that the US is bad. > And if it so happens EU leaders want to side with russia or china, US intel will know in advance and try to run interference. ... and if the US is to interfere with the democratic process of its allies people will think that the US is bad. > And the US was grateful. I bet you there are millions of citizens of the USA who are extremely upset that the US government is trying to circumvent laws made to protect them, by using foreign spy agencies. This also happens to be another reason that millions of people think the US is bad
  - _8j50 3y ago
    > ...doesn't change the fact that people will be upset Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens all the time between most/many allies. We do not live in a nice and peaceful world. > This also happens to be another reason that millions of people think the US is bad People think that because the US leadership and public is willing to criticize themselves and export that attitude along with every other stufd the US exports. France and Russia alone have toppled more regimes in the last few years in africa than the US in the last few decades. Chinese spies in every country basicaly. I mean, let's be a bit candid here, the US CIA does not just work for the US but for NATO and EU's interests as well. All those military bases in europe didn't spontaneously appear. While the US cleans up after colonial europe's mess in the past 70 years, europe developed a moral sense of arrogant superiority. Name me one country the US fought with in its entire history that was not a european former colony? If honesty and self awareness was common europe would celebrate and treasure the CIA and the US for post-war peace, security and prosperity we all enjoy and for every war and chaos averted so far. The glass is half full in this case.
    - rijoja 3y ago
      > We do not live in a nice and peaceful world. Agreed partly because there are nations who backstab their allies by wiretapping their leaders. > People think that because the US leadership and public is willing to criticize themselves and export that attitude along with every other stufd the US exports ? > France and Russia alone have toppled more regimes in the last few years in africa than the US in the last few decades. okay but France is another ally of the US? If we where to compare Russia vs US worldwide since the end of WWII who do you think would lead? > Chinese spies in every country basicaly. I thought that your point was that spies was something we should just learn to accept, and something that we could make us of? Maybe the rest of the world could make use of these spies to make sure that you don't get a president that's not good for you? How would you like that? > While the US cleans up after colonial europe's mess in the past 70 years, europe developed a moral sense of arrogant superiority. Right so all US wars are humanitarian efforts? Where did you learn about this, in a Hollywood movie? > Name me one country the US fought with in its entire history that was not a european former colony? Germany is one. Spain and Italy would be to others, do you need more examples? Not that I understand what point you are trying to make. > I mean, let's be a bit candid here, the US CIA does not just work for the US but for NATO and EU's interests as well. What you think is the EU's interest maybe isn't necessarily what people in the EU think is in their interest. > If honesty and self awareness was common europe would celebrate and treasure the CIA and the US for post-war peace, security and prosperity we all enjoy and for every war and chaos averted so far. The glass is half full in this case. Well it hasn't been peaceful at all?