4 ms·

This makes sense as nomads transformed by agriculture would probably be more interested in organized defense than offense (before prosperity, population booms a

This makes sense as nomads transformed by agriculture would probably be more interested in organized defense than offense (before prosperity, population booms and eventual land grab attempts.) Do you remember if this was a book?

Spivak 3y ago
This is why China has so many walls, the first large agrarian settlements had to deal with a huge population of scattered nomadic peoples raiding them. You couldn't really take the offense to them because it would be like playing whack-a-mole but being nomadic they weren't well equipped to conduct sieges against towers and walls so that's what they did. If you ever wondered where that bit from South Park came from with the Mongolians that's where. But spoiler Genghis Khan found a way around that problem.
- greenhearth 3y ago
  Believe it or not, the agrarian state predates China by thousands of years. It goes back 10k years to the early farmer migration into Southern Europe from the Middle East. And yes, I am very well aware of the Great Wall of China lol
  - Spivak 3y ago
    Okay, so first thing I wasn't talking about the great wall. That wasn't created until the Ming dynasty which is after the period I'm talking about. And second I mean the first agrarian settlements in China.
    - opo 3y ago
      >...Okay, so first thing I wasn't talking about the great wall. That wasn't created until the Ming dynasty The most famous parts of the Great Wall were built in the Ming Dynasty, but stretches of the wall were first built centuries before: >...Several walls were built from as early as the 7th century BC,[4] with selective stretches later joined by Qin Shi Huang (220–206 BC), the first emperor of China. Little of the Qin wall remains.[5] Later on, many successive dynasties built and maintained multiple stretches of border walls. The best-known sections of the wall were built by the Ming dynasty (1368–1644). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China
- opo 3y ago
  >...But spoiler Genghis Khan found a way around that problem. It was Kublai Khan who founded the Yuan dynasty. >...After two decades of sporadic warfare, Kublai Khan's armies conquered the Song dynasty in 1279 after defeating the Southern Song in the Battle of Yamen, and reunited China under the Yuan dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty
abeppu 3y ago
I think I read an popular press article about a research paper, but I think books did end up being produced on the topic. I don't think this was the piece I recall reading, but this recaps most of what I remember: https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/food--cooking/grains-tubers-and-the-fate-civilizations/HRS1ANbB6Hm4RZc3mlQgoK/ https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/food--cooking/grains-tubers-a...

Spivak 3y ago

This is why China has so many walls, the first large agrarian settlements had to deal with a huge population of scattered nomadic peoples raiding them. You couldn't really take the offense to them because it would be like playing whack-a-mole but being nomadic they weren't well equipped to conduct sieges against towers and walls so that's what they did. If you ever wondered where that bit from South Park came from with the Mongolians that's where. But spoiler Genghis Khan found a way around that problem.

greenhearth 3y ago
Believe it or not, the agrarian state predates China by thousands of years. It goes back 10k years to the early farmer migration into Southern Europe from the Middle East. And yes, I am very well aware of the Great Wall of China lol
- Spivak 3y ago
  Okay, so first thing I wasn't talking about the great wall. That wasn't created until the Ming dynasty which is after the period I'm talking about. And second I mean the first agrarian settlements in China.
  - opo 3y ago
    >...Okay, so first thing I wasn't talking about the great wall. That wasn't created until the Ming dynasty The most famous parts of the Great Wall were built in the Ming Dynasty, but stretches of the wall were first built centuries before: >...Several walls were built from as early as the 7th century BC,[4] with selective stretches later joined by Qin Shi Huang (220–206 BC), the first emperor of China. Little of the Qin wall remains.[5] Later on, many successive dynasties built and maintained multiple stretches of border walls. The best-known sections of the wall were built by the Ming dynasty (1368–1644). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_China
opo 3y ago
>...But spoiler Genghis Khan found a way around that problem. It was Kublai Khan who founded the Yuan dynasty. >...After two decades of sporadic warfare, Kublai Khan's armies conquered the Song dynasty in 1279 after defeating the Southern Song in the Battle of Yamen, and reunited China under the Yuan dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty

abeppu 3y ago

I think I read an popular press article about a research paper, but I think books did end up being produced on the topic. I don't think this was the piece I recall reading, but this recaps most of what I remember: https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/food--cooking/grains-tubers-and-the-fate-civilizations/HRS1ANbB6Hm4RZc3mlQgoK/ https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/food--cooking/grains-tubers-a...