That's kind of my point when I brought up the good ones being worth their weight in gold. It doesn't need to be all toil. But companies often view these roles a

That's kind of my point when I brought up the good ones being worth their weight in gold. It doesn't need to be all toil. But companies often view these roles as toil and thus they don't want to spend much money on it. Which means they get the bad ones. Which means it's all toil. And the cycle perpetuates. In contrast, the high end people I've come across in QA, Ops, Infosec, etc. They were not only *expert* in their domain but better devs than most of the devs. In other words, the dynamic was the opposite from what I first described. And of course those people are really freaking expensive. Again, the cycle perpetuates.