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The real solution is quite simple: trash cans The reason why NYC has such a rat epidemic is because they literally throw their trash bags on the street. Which

The real solution is quite simple: trash cans The reason why NYC has such a rat epidemic is because they literally throw their trash bags on the street. Which leads to some getting ripped open and leaving food for pests.

Analemma_ 3y ago
New Yorkers are so precious about this. I've heard pages and pages of excuses why trash containers can't possibly work in New York City, despite literally every other city in the developed world-- including all the others in the United States-- somehow managing to master this arcane technology.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  We Americans love our Exceptionalism, what can I say!
- rsynnott 3y ago
  This is actually somewhat common in city centres for space and access reasons; lots of places do it. Here's one recent attempt at fixing it: https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/06/21/plastic-bin-bags-to-be-phased-out-in-dublin-city-following-successful-trial-of-bagbins/ https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/06/21/plastic... (Once you go outside the canals it's wheelie bins, but they are not considered suitable for use in the very centre, for reasons I was never super-clear on)
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Nobody's saying they can't work, they're just saying it's an expensive transformation that involves tradeoffs. Which is in large part because of the way NYC was laid out originally -- no back alleys where garbage could be stored and collected, in order to reduce areas for potential crime. If it were as simple as you imply, it would have been done already. Guess what -- it's actually pretty complex, but containerization is a major focus of the current administration. Nobody's being "precious" about anything -- there's no need to be insulting.
- Ericson2314 3y ago
  I live in New York. I believe it will work. It's the street-parking minority that is in denial.
- drfuchs 3y ago
  The Back Bay section of Boston begs to differ. Even with alleyways between the streets, still no trash cans, just plastic bags (that get chewed through pretty much uniformly).
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
Careful. You might then get javelinas like we do in Phoenix. They'll just kick over the trashcan.
scientaster2 3y ago
The first time I visited NYC, I was appalled that so many people just casually live in the stink of street trash 24/7. They just don't see it as an issue, strangely
- macintux 3y ago
  ~20 years ago I visited Toronto for a Debian conference in the middle of an outdoor workers strike. I wanted to visit Chinatown, but the heaps of trash bags that hadn't been collected left a stench that I couldn't stomach.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    I remember that strike :-) Welcome to Ontario :-) Spadina Chinatown has always been notorious for that. Back in the 90s, it was intolerable on garbage days even when there was no strike. Lots of expired seafood in bags out on the sidewalk etc. Nothing like rotting squished crabs baking in hot humid 85f summer smog. It's improved a lot since then.
- ch4s3 3y ago
  EVERYONE but Bill Deblasio sees it as an issue.
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    Bill Deblasio is not the mayor of NYC, please update your copypasta
- InCityDreams 3y ago
  Hong Kong in the 60s-70s was a real shithole, NYC sounds a lot nicer. HK cleaned itself up, real nice. Our fave market was called "stinky's".
- hx8 3y ago
  The first time I visited NYC was for a job interview. I wanted to live in an urban, walkable city with plenty of cultural and business opportunities. The trash situation was a primary factor in me choosing another city and another job. I get that many many people in NYC don't see this as an issue, or don't see this as a solvable problem. As an outsider it is absolutely disgusting, and forever lowered my opinion of the city.
notjustanymike 3y ago
Trash cans aren't viable because of shortcomings in our infrastructure; we don't have alleyways. Large apartment buildings use dumpsters or basement trash rooms, but you can't exactly cart those out on to the sidewalk. Street side pickup is the only option barring rebuilding the city, and a garbage man isn't picking up an entire trash can. Having a truck pick up the garbage can would also encounter issues with space and time. That's how we landed on our current... well... "solution". Also trash cans aren't foolproof. I've encountered more than a few of the critters digging through our refuse, along with a trash panda once or twice. The bags aren't rat proof either; it's not that they rip, but rather the rats chew through. Complicated problem with a lot of legacy infrastructure debt.
- yostrovs 3y ago
  You forgot to mention the union of garbage men that fights against any kind of gains of efficiency. You could have easy-open small dumpsters that are found all over Europe, but that would take work away from a couple guys throwing bags of garbage into the truck.
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    Any real-world examples of the NYC sanitation doing this? Or just a generic "unions bad" comment?
- 1over137 3y ago
  Couldn't you repurpose on-street car parking for trash containers? (I suppose Americans love their cars too much for that...)
- HPsquared 3y ago
  Don't Americans have Wheelie Bins? https://wikiwaste.org.uk/Wheelie_Bin https://wikiwaste.org.uk/Wheelie_Bin
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    In many cities yes. The current mayor of NYC proposed using trash cans. The proposal was met with open arms and without controversy (just kidding). https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-homeowners-to-be-charged-for-new-official-trash-can https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-homeowners-to-be-charged-for-...
joecool1029 3y ago
> The reason why NYC has such a rat epidemic is because they literally throw their trash bags on the street. NYC has huge underground tunnel networks for subway and other things. The only other city in the US with a comparably large rat problem is Chicago, which also has substantial tunneling. This gives rats a huge place to live. While trash is a contributing factor the huge amount of old tunnels is the main reason it's so hard to control. The city can do all the control it wants in the parks but it isn't going to put much of a dent in the underground systems.
logicalmonster 3y ago
There's always a cost and a tradeoff. The real question might not be choosing rats or no rats, but choosing between rats or parking. As far as I understand the proposed solution, the containerization proposed would take up somewhere in the range of 100,000 to 200,000 parking spots in NYC.
djtango 3y ago
I walked past a giant trash bin in Singapore one night and there were literally 10+ rats shuffling around inside it and I could hear it shaking and banging. Singapore has no litter problem (but the heat and humidity probably makes the trash more delicious smelling) but the rats can find their way into anything...
- stavros 3y ago
  This is very "if it's not perfect, it's not worth doing".
micromacrofoot 3y ago
It's not really a solution, because even then no one's perfect about using them, but it can help. Rats will chew right through a plastic trash can if they're desperate, and steel dumpsters eventually rust out and create nice little rat doors. Almost ever major city has some level of rat problem, with underground transit and other man-made tunnels I believe the problem is essentially impossible to solve. It's all about management.

Analemma_ 3y ago

New Yorkers are so precious about this. I've heard pages and pages of excuses why trash containers can't possibly work in New York City, despite literally every other city in the developed world-- including all the others in the United States-- somehow managing to master this arcane technology.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
We Americans love our Exceptionalism, what can I say!
rsynnott 3y ago
This is actually somewhat common in city centres for space and access reasons; lots of places do it. Here's one recent attempt at fixing it: https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/06/21/plastic-bin-bags-to-be-phased-out-in-dublin-city-following-successful-trial-of-bagbins/ https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/06/21/plastic... (Once you go outside the canals it's wheelie bins, but they are not considered suitable for use in the very centre, for reasons I was never super-clear on)
crazygringo 3y ago
Nobody's saying they can't work, they're just saying it's an expensive transformation that involves tradeoffs. Which is in large part because of the way NYC was laid out originally -- no back alleys where garbage could be stored and collected, in order to reduce areas for potential crime. If it were as simple as you imply, it would have been done already. Guess what -- it's actually pretty complex, but containerization is a major focus of the current administration. Nobody's being "precious" about anything -- there's no need to be insulting.
Ericson2314 3y ago
I live in New York. I believe it will work. It's the street-parking minority that is in denial.
drfuchs 3y ago
The Back Bay section of Boston begs to differ. Even with alleyways between the streets, still no trash cans, just plastic bags (that get chewed through pretty much uniformly).

WirelessGigabit 3y ago

Careful. You might then get javelinas like we do in Phoenix. They'll just kick over the trashcan.

scientaster2 3y ago

The first time I visited NYC, I was appalled that so many people just casually live in the stink of street trash 24/7. They just don't see it as an issue, strangely

macintux 3y ago
~20 years ago I visited Toronto for a Debian conference in the middle of an outdoor workers strike. I wanted to visit Chinatown, but the heaps of trash bags that hadn't been collected left a stench that I couldn't stomach.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  I remember that strike :-) Welcome to Ontario :-) Spadina Chinatown has always been notorious for that. Back in the 90s, it was intolerable on garbage days even when there was no strike. Lots of expired seafood in bags out on the sidewalk etc. Nothing like rotting squished crabs baking in hot humid 85f summer smog. It's improved a lot since then.
ch4s3 3y ago
EVERYONE but Bill Deblasio sees it as an issue.
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  Bill Deblasio is not the mayor of NYC, please update your copypasta
InCityDreams 3y ago
Hong Kong in the 60s-70s was a real shithole, NYC sounds a lot nicer. HK cleaned itself up, real nice. Our fave market was called "stinky's".
hx8 3y ago
The first time I visited NYC was for a job interview. I wanted to live in an urban, walkable city with plenty of cultural and business opportunities. The trash situation was a primary factor in me choosing another city and another job. I get that many many people in NYC don't see this as an issue, or don't see this as a solvable problem. As an outsider it is absolutely disgusting, and forever lowered my opinion of the city.

notjustanymike 3y ago

Trash cans aren't viable because of shortcomings in our infrastructure; we don't have alleyways. Large apartment buildings use dumpsters or basement trash rooms, but you can't exactly cart those out on to the sidewalk. Street side pickup is the only option barring rebuilding the city, and a garbage man isn't picking up an entire trash can. Having a truck pick up the garbage can would also encounter issues with space and time. That's how we landed on our current... well... "solution". Also trash cans aren't foolproof. I've encountered more than a few of the critters digging through our refuse, along with a trash panda once or twice. The bags aren't rat proof either; it's not that they rip, but rather the rats chew through. Complicated problem with a lot of legacy infrastructure debt.

yostrovs 3y ago
You forgot to mention the union of garbage men that fights against any kind of gains of efficiency. You could have easy-open small dumpsters that are found all over Europe, but that would take work away from a couple guys throwing bags of garbage into the truck.
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  Any real-world examples of the NYC sanitation doing this? Or just a generic "unions bad" comment?
1over137 3y ago
Couldn't you repurpose on-street car parking for trash containers? (I suppose Americans love their cars too much for that...)
HPsquared 3y ago
Don't Americans have Wheelie Bins? https://wikiwaste.org.uk/Wheelie_Bin https://wikiwaste.org.uk/Wheelie_Bin
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  In many cities yes. The current mayor of NYC proposed using trash cans. The proposal was met with open arms and without controversy (just kidding). https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-homeowners-to-be-charged-for-new-official-trash-can https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-homeowners-to-be-charged-for-...

joecool1029 3y ago

> The reason why NYC has such a rat epidemic is because they literally throw their trash bags on the street. NYC has huge underground tunnel networks for subway and other things. The only other city in the US with a comparably large rat problem is Chicago, which also has substantial tunneling. This gives rats a huge place to live. While trash is a contributing factor the huge amount of old tunnels is the main reason it's so hard to control. The city can do all the control it wants in the parks but it isn't going to put much of a dent in the underground systems.

logicalmonster 3y ago

There's always a cost and a tradeoff. The real question might not be choosing rats or no rats, but choosing between rats or parking. As far as I understand the proposed solution, the containerization proposed would take up somewhere in the range of 100,000 to 200,000 parking spots in NYC.

djtango 3y ago

I walked past a giant trash bin in Singapore one night and there were literally 10+ rats shuffling around inside it and I could hear it shaking and banging. Singapore has no litter problem (but the heat and humidity probably makes the trash more delicious smelling) but the rats can find their way into anything...

stavros 3y ago
This is very "if it's not perfect, it's not worth doing".

micromacrofoot 3y ago

It's not really a solution, because even then no one's perfect about using them, but it can help. Rats will chew right through a plastic trash can if they're desperate, and steel dumpsters eventually rust out and create nice little rat doors. Almost ever major city has some level of rat problem, with underground transit and other man-made tunnels I believe the problem is essentially impossible to solve. It's all about management.