6 ms·

This isn’t going to happen within the device’s useful lifetime.

by nullindividual 3y ago

paulryanrogers 3y ago
Won't it? Devices can live a long time. And if the drives are user replaceable then even longer!
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  They last for years with constant writes; on the order of magnitude with petabytes The properties surely vary among drives... but this isn't worth much concern I'd throw a computer swapping this much out the window before the NAND would give up
  - curt15 3y ago
    A typical Samsung SSD is warrantied for between 100 and 500 TBW[1]. [1] https://semiconductor.samsung.com/us/consumer-storage/internal-ssd/870evo/ https://semiconductor.samsung.com/us/consumer-storage/intern...
    - bravetraveler 3y ago
      What are you trying to say here, that one can only expect what's warrantied? I expect nothing more than OEM support in that warranty... and that things generally continue to work outside of it. Techreport (and others, before we go down that path too) tested those along with many other drives. They were written to for more than a year and a half continuously. Sure, Samsung and others only agree to financially be on the hook for N bytes. The point is, the drive can handle it - and the situation doesn't make sense. Let's take a step back or two. We're focusing on numbers one would never even have the patience to reach while swapping
      - paulryanrogers 3y ago
        Used drives can have life in another device or the whole device may be reused for a less taxing purpose ... if it hasn't been exhausted because of cost cutting.
        bravetraveler 3y ago
        Sure, so hopefully the person before you bought a machine with sufficient memory ... and didn't walk away from it for days, if not weeks, while it was swapping. Ignore the numbers. The proposed problem is ridiculous.
  - ChoGGi 3y ago
    > They last for years with constant writes; on the order of magnitude with petabytes For anyone else wondering, that test did use one TLC disc (Samsung 840). It had a major issue at 300TB, then went on till 800 (failed somewhere around 900). Not many new MLC/SLC in the consumer market. https://techreport.com/review/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead/ https://techreport.com/review/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-t... Unless you meant another test?
    - bravetraveler 3y ago
      That's indeed the test I had at the forefront. That's a good/fair distinction - QLC or whatever now is probably less reliable. My point remains, though. Worrying about the lifetime of the drive by way of memory/swapping is silly. You'd have to leave the box unusable for days, if not weeks, to meaningfully contribute to wear.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  Aren't most companies on a 3-5 years replacement schedule for laptops? Usually based on some combo of accounting/tax rules, warranty and service plan availability?
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    If devices have only one short life at a single customer before being trashed or smelted then folks need to wake up. Reuse comes before recycle for a reason. I rarely ever buy new and usually got hand-me-down equipment at work. The last brand new equipment I was issued on the job was probably 2013.
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      My employer was on a fixed 3 year cycle when I started here (20+ years ago). Every multiple of 3 years, you got a new laptop. At the time, the old ones were given away to employees for personal use. At some point, they went to a 4 year cycle. Employees can keep equipment as long as they want - 4 years is the minimum to request new hardware (without a reason and approval). The give away disappeared as well, not sure what happens to the old stuff today. Back when I was on Windows/Dell, that 3-4 year replacement cycle for crucial. The systems just didn't hold up over time. Even more so for people who travelled. Now that I'm on a Mac, the hardware seems to hold up much better (aside from the occasional poor design like the keyboards of ~5 years ago).
helf 3y ago
[dead]

This isn’t going to happen within the device’s useful lifetime.

paulryanrogers 3y ago

Won't it? Devices can live a long time. And if the drives are user replaceable then even longer!

bravetraveler 3y ago
They last for years with constant writes; on the order of magnitude with petabytes The properties surely vary among drives... but this isn't worth much concern I'd throw a computer swapping this much out the window before the NAND would give up
- curt15 3y ago
  A typical Samsung SSD is warrantied for between 100 and 500 TBW[1]. [1] https://semiconductor.samsung.com/us/consumer-storage/internal-ssd/870evo/ https://semiconductor.samsung.com/us/consumer-storage/intern...
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    What are you trying to say here, that one can only expect what's warrantied? I expect nothing more than OEM support in that warranty... and that things generally continue to work outside of it. Techreport (and others, before we go down that path too) tested those along with many other drives. They were written to for more than a year and a half continuously. Sure, Samsung and others only agree to financially be on the hook for N bytes. The point is, the drive can handle it - and the situation doesn't make sense. Let's take a step back or two. We're focusing on numbers one would never even have the patience to reach while swapping
    - paulryanrogers 3y ago
      Used drives can have life in another device or the whole device may be reused for a less taxing purpose ... if it hasn't been exhausted because of cost cutting.
      - bravetraveler 3y ago
        Sure, so hopefully the person before you bought a machine with sufficient memory ... and didn't walk away from it for days, if not weeks, while it was swapping. Ignore the numbers. The proposed problem is ridiculous.
- ChoGGi 3y ago
  > They last for years with constant writes; on the order of magnitude with petabytes For anyone else wondering, that test did use one TLC disc (Samsung 840). It had a major issue at 300TB, then went on till 800 (failed somewhere around 900). Not many new MLC/SLC in the consumer market. https://techreport.com/review/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead/ https://techreport.com/review/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-t... Unless you meant another test?
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    That's indeed the test I had at the forefront. That's a good/fair distinction - QLC or whatever now is probably less reliable. My point remains, though. Worrying about the lifetime of the drive by way of memory/swapping is silly. You'd have to leave the box unusable for days, if not weeks, to meaningfully contribute to wear.
alistairSH 3y ago
Aren't most companies on a 3-5 years replacement schedule for laptops? Usually based on some combo of accounting/tax rules, warranty and service plan availability?
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  If devices have only one short life at a single customer before being trashed or smelted then folks need to wake up. Reuse comes before recycle for a reason. I rarely ever buy new and usually got hand-me-down equipment at work. The last brand new equipment I was issued on the job was probably 2013.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    My employer was on a fixed 3 year cycle when I started here (20+ years ago). Every multiple of 3 years, you got a new laptop. At the time, the old ones were given away to employees for personal use. At some point, they went to a 4 year cycle. Employees can keep equipment as long as they want - 4 years is the minimum to request new hardware (without a reason and approval). The give away disappeared as well, not sure what happens to the old stuff today. Back when I was on Windows/Dell, that 3-4 year replacement cycle for crucial. The systems just didn't hold up over time. Even more so for people who travelled. Now that I'm on a Mac, the hardware seems to hold up much better (aside from the occasional poor design like the keyboards of ~5 years ago).

helf 3y ago

[dead]